PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread
- Thread starter crobato
- Start date
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Pakistan was in final stages with Germany for U-214 along with Turkey, however few years ago Pakistan pulled out of the deal when negotiation with China was favoured, infact Pakistan lost alot of time dealing with Germany and it was years before we switched to China, if we nevered lost those years with the Germaans we would have had our first submarine delivered by now from China but the fault for that lies with PN i guess, the same kind of thing happened with the Pakistan-Turkey FAC deal, it was switched to China is well
the order with Germany was for 3 U-214 similar to the Agosta 90B deal with France with ToT, but the Chinese order is for 6 under similar deal, I would like to see 5 built in China for the advantage of speed of delivery and the last one built at Karachi Dockyard, meaning we will have the capability to manufacture 3 types of submarines
Pakistan was in final stages with Germany for U-214 along with Turkey, however few years ago Pakistan pulled out of the deal when negotiation with China was favoured, infact Pakistan lost alot of time dealing with Germany and it was years before we switched to China, if we nevered lost those years with the Germaans we would have had our first submarine delivered by now from China but the fault for that lies with PN i guess, the same kind of thing happened with the Pakistan-Turkey FAC deal, it was switched to China is well
the order with Germany was for 3 U-214 similar to the Agosta 90B deal with France with ToT, but the Chinese order is for 6 under similar deal, I would like to see 5 built in China for the advantage of speed of delivery and the last one built at Karachi Dockyard, meaning we will have the capability to manufacture 3 types of submarines
timepass
Brigadier
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Plus there were news on the different forums (PAKDEF etc) that PN officials extensively involve with their Chinese counter parts in the development of QUING class (SSK) as they are having enough experience with Augusta 90B with AIPs plus Germans & French gave them handsome info about their products (U-214 & Merlin) which PN is trying to incorporate in QUING class with SLCM (Babur) launch through tubes, same as like tailor made JF17 for PAF.
Furthermore, 6 SUBS are never the less is confirmed through PN sources (please don’t ask me for links).
Plus there were news on the different forums (PAKDEF etc) that PN officials extensively involve with their Chinese counter parts in the development of QUING class (SSK) as they are having enough experience with Augusta 90B with AIPs plus Germans & French gave them handsome info about their products (U-214 & Merlin) which PN is trying to incorporate in QUING class with SLCM (Babur) launch through tubes, same as like tailor made JF17 for PAF.
Furthermore, 6 SUBS are never the less is confirmed through PN sources (please don’t ask me for links).
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
France infact did alot for Pakistans Navy, for the transfer of technology they provided training to hundreds of Pakistani technicans and trained them very well, they gave full access to all the development documentation and machinary and also Pakistan spent $200 million to modernize Pakistan Naval Dockard to accomodate and build Agosta 90B, and the 3rd one PNS Hamza (S139) features MESMA AIP engine
France exposed Pakistan to technology which very few nations have, right from the start until the last ship was commissioned French staff were there at PND to oversee and help with smooth construction of the subs, this has left Pakistan with a very good expertese and knowledge, and in 2007 we ordered 2 MESMA AIPs from France to upgrade the 2 earlier submarines to bring them up to the standard of the last one, all done by Pakistan in Pakistan
the total bill for the 3 subs has exceeded $1 billion, but its a price worth paying, now Pakistan is fully self sufficient with Agosta 90Bs, and armed with this knowledge they can now enter into deep negiations with China for development of new Chinese sub for Pakistan
with addition of 6 more Chinese subs Pakistan will have total of 11 subs, 3 x Agosta 90B + 2 x Agosta 70 + 6 x Chinese subs
I hope we get Babur inco-operated with the new subs, babur cruise missile is nuclear capable and will give Pakistan 2nd strike capability, which will open a new era in the Navy and rasing a new submarine sqaudron at Gwader port would be better, it would give Pakistan 2 locations, and plus Gwader is much more strategically located harder to attack, having the 6 new subs stationed there would bring many new advantages, off course though, it would require lots of investment and resources for a brand new naval base
for a shoreline of just 650km that is not a bad sub-surface force and a headache for any Navy no matter how big if they try for blockade, numbers wont mean much when you have the terrain on yourside, any Indian frigate or destroyer sunk or even damaged by Pakistan will send Indian Navy on the back foot, memorys of PNS Hangor (S131) still live strong, the 1st submarine kill since WWII, when it destroyed and sunk 2 ASW frigates, INS Khukri and the INS Kirpan in 1971 and PNS Ghazi forced the Indian Carrier into the Bay of Bengal for the duration of the war
Submarines are excellent equalizers, if used correctly can alter the entire stratedgy of a carrier battle group or even a war, like the Falklands, the threat of a RN Nuke sub
France infact did alot for Pakistans Navy, for the transfer of technology they provided training to hundreds of Pakistani technicans and trained them very well, they gave full access to all the development documentation and machinary and also Pakistan spent $200 million to modernize Pakistan Naval Dockard to accomodate and build Agosta 90B, and the 3rd one PNS Hamza (S139) features MESMA AIP engine
France exposed Pakistan to technology which very few nations have, right from the start until the last ship was commissioned French staff were there at PND to oversee and help with smooth construction of the subs, this has left Pakistan with a very good expertese and knowledge, and in 2007 we ordered 2 MESMA AIPs from France to upgrade the 2 earlier submarines to bring them up to the standard of the last one, all done by Pakistan in Pakistan
the total bill for the 3 subs has exceeded $1 billion, but its a price worth paying, now Pakistan is fully self sufficient with Agosta 90Bs, and armed with this knowledge they can now enter into deep negiations with China for development of new Chinese sub for Pakistan
with addition of 6 more Chinese subs Pakistan will have total of 11 subs, 3 x Agosta 90B + 2 x Agosta 70 + 6 x Chinese subs
I hope we get Babur inco-operated with the new subs, babur cruise missile is nuclear capable and will give Pakistan 2nd strike capability, which will open a new era in the Navy and rasing a new submarine sqaudron at Gwader port would be better, it would give Pakistan 2 locations, and plus Gwader is much more strategically located harder to attack, having the 6 new subs stationed there would bring many new advantages, off course though, it would require lots of investment and resources for a brand new naval base
for a shoreline of just 650km that is not a bad sub-surface force and a headache for any Navy no matter how big if they try for blockade, numbers wont mean much when you have the terrain on yourside, any Indian frigate or destroyer sunk or even damaged by Pakistan will send Indian Navy on the back foot, memorys of PNS Hangor (S131) still live strong, the 1st submarine kill since WWII, when it destroyed and sunk 2 ASW frigates, INS Khukri and the INS Kirpan in 1971 and PNS Ghazi forced the Indian Carrier into the Bay of Bengal for the duration of the war
Submarines are excellent equalizers, if used correctly can alter the entire stratedgy of a carrier battle group or even a war, like the Falklands, the threat of a RN Nuke sub
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timepass
Brigadier
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
But what type of Chinese subs are you talking about? I heard that they were Quing class subs but one of our Chinese friends said that there were no subs designated as Quing class in the Chinese navy and that has created this spell that the whole news might be fake.
But what type of Chinese subs are you talking about? I heard that they were Quing class subs but one of our Chinese friends said that there were no subs designated as Quing class in the Chinese navy and that has created this spell that the whole news might be fake.
Maggern
Junior Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Well, first of all it's spelled QING, not QUING. Second, the only circumstances I've heard the name be used is about a new, experiemental sub that we have little information about outside a few pictures. Thus I -highly- doubt it's for export for the next couple of decades. China selling subs to Pakistan, however, is of course possible.
Well, first of all it's spelled QING, not QUING. Second, the only circumstances I've heard the name be used is about a new, experiemental sub that we have little information about outside a few pictures. Thus I -highly- doubt it's for export for the next couple of decades. China selling subs to Pakistan, however, is of course possible.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
This new chinese submarine is most definately a SLBM test platform. See the picture in this link. It has a big hump in the hull below the turret. What else could it be? So I dont this submarine will ever be exported.
This new chinese submarine is most definately a SLBM test platform. See the picture in this link. It has a big hump in the hull below the turret. What else could it be? So I dont this submarine will ever be exported.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
According to one Chinese source the modified Yuan Class sub has been designated as the Qing Class sub. It has no big hump in the hull.
According to one Chinese source the modified Yuan Class sub has been designated as the Qing Class sub. It has no big hump in the hull.