PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

There was the original Yuan (330) from 2005. Then they built 3 Yuan (331-333) in the second wave. The first 4 were 039A.

By my calculation, there has been at least 3 039B joining service that were built in WC and 1 that is about to join from JN shipyard. And now, we have that new 039B that just got launched a while ago in WC.

So, close to 8 Yuans in service and a couple of more under construction.

So, you count 4 Yuan (I), 4 Yuan (II), and the new one for a total of 9. How does escobar arrive at eight Yuan I, 5 Yuan II, and the last one? 9 is a good number, but 14 is a really strong number.

How many Yuans do you think the PLAN will build if they now have nine launched? 16? 20?

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Do u think China will ever use SSK like Yuan to escort a task force or would that only be a SSN?

Also how many SSN China have? Type 093?

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Very doubtful that SSK would be used to escort either a SAG (Surface action Group) or a carrier group. They are simply too slow.

Now, for slower Amphibious groups, particularly closer in within the 1st or perhaps 2nd Island chain, that would be possible since those groups move much slower...but also not as likely.

I believe the PLAN still has 3 or 4 091s and probably as many as 4 093s...any of which could be used for such escort duties.

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I have (reluctantly) come to the concluision that there are now three HAN (403, 404, 405) and four SHANG (407, 408, 409, 411).

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I have (reluctantly) come to the concluision that there are now three HAN (403, 404, 405) and four SHANG (407, 408, 409, 411).

That's what I think too. This gives the PLAN seven nuclear attack subs...plus whatever either has already come out of, or is building with the type 095 program...which I do not know. Still, they now could easily escort their carrier group with one of these subs, probably a Type 093 once they reach that stage.

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

How does escobar arrive at eight Yuan I, 5 Yuan II, and the last one? 9 is a good number, but 14 is a really strong number.

How many Yuans do you think the PLAN will build if they now have nine launched? 16? 20?

escobar quoted the figure I suggested.

I arrived at my estimate of YUAN’s by collecting all available observations at Wuhan and in naval bases since the launch of Hull 1 on 31.05.04 and its arrival at Yulin in December 2006, where it is now 330 (last observed January 2010).

They launched Hull 2 in 2006 and two every year between 2007 and 2009, with Hull 8 arriving at Shanghai-Wusong in March 2010, as noted before.

One is at Yulin, 4 have been seen at Daxiedao and the rest must be in North Sea Fleet, where the first (probably Hull 4) arrived at Lushun in June 2008.

YUAN II Hull 1 also went to NSF, arriving at Xiaopingdao in March 2011.

All submarine facilities in NSF, i.e. Qingdao submarine base and Qianjin Navy Yard, Xiaopingdao, Shazikou and Lushun, were covered on 29.03.11. Two YUAN’s were seen at Xiaopingdao and one at Shazikou. Qingdao was covered again on 20.04.11 and shows five SONG/YUAN in the submarine base and one at Qianjin Yard.

As mentioned above, there is very good evidence that 16 YUAN's were ordered, but I think they will build four more (to replace the four oldest MING's, ito be precise).

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

escobar quoted the figure I suggested.

I arrived at my estimate of YUAN’s by collecting all available observations at Wuhan and in naval bases since the launch of Hull 1 on 31.05.04 and its arrival at Yulin in December 2006, where it is now 330 (last observed January 2010).

They launched Hull 2 in 2006 and two every year between 2007 and 2009, with Hull 8 arriving at Shanghai-Wusong in March 2010, as noted before.

One is at Yulin, 4 have been seen at Daxiedao and the rest must be in North Sea Fleet, where the first (probably Hull 4) arrived at Lushun in June 2008.

YUAN II Hull 1 also went to NSF, arriving at Xiaopingdao in March 2011.

All submarine facilities in NSF, i.e. Qingdao submarine base and Qianjin Navy Yard, Xiaopingdao, Shazikou and Lushun, were covered on 29.03.11. Two YUAN’s were seen at Xiaopingdao and one at Shazikou. Qingdao was covered again on 20.04.11 and shows five SONG/YUAN in the submarine base and one at Qianjin Yard.

As mentioned above, there is very good evidence that 16 YUAN's were ordered, but I think they will build four more (to replace the four oldest MING's, ito be precise).

Sorry i'm confused. So there are 8/9 YUAN I and 2/5 YUAN II ??

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Apologies for being unclear (but submarines are quite difficult and often confusing). To be very clear, my estimate is:

YUAN I - 8 in service

YUAN II - 3 in service, two fitting out at Jiangnan and Wuhan, respectively.

Fitting out took about 8 months for Hulls 2 and 3. If the Jiangnan unit is the same, it should make its appearance quite soon.

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Apologies for being unclear (but submarines are quite difficult and often confusing). To be very clear, my estimate is:

YUAN I - 8 in service

YUAN II - 3 in service, two fitting out at Jiangnan and Wuhan, respectively.

Fitting out took about 8 months for Hulls 2 and 3. If the Jiangnan unit is the same, it should make its appearance quite soon.

No need to apologize. As always you did a great job.
thanks.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

So, you count 4 Yuan (I), 4 Yuan (II), and the new one for a total of 9. How does escobar arrive at eight Yuan I, 5 Yuan II, and the last one? 9 is a good number, but 14 is a really strong number.

How many Yuans do you think the PLAN will build if they now have nine launched? 16? 20?

They will probably get to 16 with 4 Yuan I and 12 Yuan II. The new submarine is of a different submarine class, so I'm not going to include it in the Yuan count.

Do u think China will ever use SSK like Yuan to escort a task force or would that only be a SSN?

Also how many SSN China have? Type 093?

No and they have at least 4 093s (2 in SSF and 2 in NSF). They might have one more in NSF. Not sure exactly.

Apologies for being unclear (but submarines are quite difficult and often confusing). To be very clear, my estimate is:

YUAN I - 8 in service

YUAN II - 3 in service, two fitting out at Jiangnan and Wuhan, respectively.

Fitting out took about 8 months for Hulls 2 and 3. If the Jiangnan unit is the same, it should make its appearance quite soon.

you are wrong about Yuan I