PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

As if Pakistan has ton of money to spend Let be realistic so far China grant Pakistan all the new toy . I don't believe a single minute that this "wet dream" will be realized!

Pakistan is close to bankrupt. she better use the limited fund to better the life of her people

well its better to live free and on ur own terms under bad economoc conditions than under India, get over it, Pakistan exists as a nation has done for over 6 decades, it has fought and withstood 5 wars with a enemy 6 times its size and still continue to exist, high or low we wont be cutting defence cus our neighbour always like to pick and try and bully its smaller neighbours

and China will sell anything Pakistan needs, they have always found ways around it, Pakistans entire missle programme which includes Shaheen III with 5000km range has benifited from Chinese engineering, its not even under question, maybe infront of international community they will use some cover but reality on ground is different

 

[kroko]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

as for NPT, M11 missiles are not allowed for export but China delivered them, enrichment centrifudges are not allowed under IAEA but China supplied them to Pakistan, CJ-10K LACM would just need a Pakistani paint job problem solved

M-11 missiles are allowed under MTCR, because they only have 300 km range. Thats the reason why brahmos missile only has 290 km range, in order for Russia to comply with the MTCR. However, a nuclear-capable 2500 km range cruise missile is totally different.

i dont expect that China will sell that to anyone, including Pakistan.

It would get China into a lot of trouble

 

[Hyperwarp]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

M-11 missiles are allowed under MTCR, because they only have 300 km range. Thats the reason why brahmos missile only has 290 km range, in order for Russia to comply with the MTCR. However, a nuclear-capable 2500 km range cruise missile is totally different.

i dont expect that China will sell that to anyone, including Pakistan.

It would get China into a lot of trouble

PRC is NOT a member of the MTCR. PRC has said it'll abide by some of the guidelines. It seems PRC wanted to join but MTCR members had not offered it. Plus, neither India nor Pakistan are members.

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But don't forget the US sold Tomahawks to the UK in 1995, as well as Trident D5 SLBM before that. MTCR more of a partnership than a signed treaties like NPT, CTBT etc.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

i dont know why many people think that " Chinese sensitive technology" cant be exported, i think this is just plain paranoia, who has ever cared about international laws and treatys

in 1980s China sold as many as 36 to 60 Dongfeng 3 missiles to Saudi Arabia which can carry a 2000kg nuclear capable warhead 2000km some even say Saudi missiles can reach 3000km+

during the Clinton adminsitration in 1998 US attacked camps in Afghanistan using Tomahawks fired from US ships in Arabian Sea, some of them landed inside Pakistan fully intact, US demanded full return off any missiles from Pakistan which never happened, 7 years later we see serial production of the Babur cruise missile in Pakistan and it is widely believed China had full access to them, Sino-Pak cruise missile co-operation goes back a very long time

If Pakistan request Chinese submarines with cruise missiles that is what they will get

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

guys, this is completely off topic now. If you want to talk about MTCR and export controls, please take this to another thread. Stay on talking about submarines!

pictures from JN shipyard recently, showing new Yuan submarine launched there. You can also see the 3rd and 4th 052C from this picture.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Is this a new one . I lost track of how many have they built sofar Last count it was 6 . They really pumped like sausages now

 

[Red___Sword]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I do suggest to open a new thread for members to talk about missiles, warheads... strategic assets, freely.

PS: "stragegic assets" could be missile transport / launcher; strategic subs; cruise missiles... as well.

 

[Galrahn]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

This new sub looks like a modernized Golf class, so its hard to suggest China would be exporting some major modern piece of tech to Pakistan if the article is accurate.

I also see nothing that suggests is would violate any international agreements China is party too.

Do I believe the article? Sort of. The author has a history of getting the big parts accurate and screwing up the details. My guess this article will be similar. My sources suggest there is another Qing submarine like this under construction already, which if true, opens the door to theories like export.

As for cost, China is giving Pakistan a lot of stuff lately presumably for access to resources.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

This new sub looks like a modernized Golf class, so its hard to suggest China would be exporting some major modern piece of tech to Pakistan if the article is accurate.

As for cost, China is giving Pakistan a lot of stuff lately presumably for access to resources.

In it modern role perhaps but the Qing looks nothing like the old golf class.

 

[Equation]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

As if Pakistan has ton of money to spend Let be realistic so far China grant Pakistan all the new toy . I don't believe a single minute that this "wet dream" will be realized!

Pakistan is close to bankrupt. she better use the limited fund to better the life of her people

Perhaps, you are right, but remember this, the Pakistan ISI and military has their own budget and create businesses on their own to sustain its own existence without the burden of the state fund. Both have a lot of money with various investments all over the middle east and Asia.