PLAN Catapult Development Thread, News, etc.

[Jeff Head]

For us as observers: what will be the difference between steam and EMALS? Is it relevant, whether steam or EMALS will be installed?

Well, as an observer there is a completely different set of equipment, and electrical layout necessary for EMALs vs Steam. And it is a significant equipment difference.

In addition, you have a better opportunity to "dial it in" in terms of the weight and load of the aircraft with EMALs. But that is not something we really get a chance to see just watching the carrier in operation.

So, if they have developed both to the point of reliable operation...they will both launch aircraft off the deck of the carrier which is the point.

Above deck, in terms of the flight deck, it will all appear pretty much the same. You will not have some the steam coming up as you do along the track with a steam cat...and that is not all that noticeable anyway.

So, from purely an observation standpoint, aircraft will hook up to the cat and get jettisoned down the track and off the carrier for both.

 

[weig2000]

I agree. We can clearly see that the two catapults being installed at Huangdicun are of different configurations based on their geometry, and the rumours are saying that it's a competition of steam vs EM cat for 002.

Combine that with Rear Admiral Ma's statements of confidence about his EM cat project over the last year or so, along with some recent and deliberately vague statements by fzgfzy that 002's construction schedule may be "delayed" based on "competing schemes" makes me think that the first 002 may well possibly be lined up for being equipped with EM cat.

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I was originally more optimistic and favorable to EMAILS vs. steam catapult, given what we heard about the statuses of both technologies. Over time, though, I'm leaning towards that eventually they will stay the course and stick to their original plan, i.e. steam catapult for 002.

The fundamental tradeoff is between reducing the long term logistic and training cost that comes with a uniform platform vs. time lost, redesign work and the inherent risks associated with newer technology. The additional benefits of staying the course would be being able to ramp up the training and deployment more quickly. These may not be as shining as showing off the new technology of EMAILS, but they're actually more important for PLAN at this stage. Besides, the original plan is not conservative at all.

There is obvious some ongoing internal discussion/debating among PLAN and policy people regarding the two options. We really don't know the real status and maturity of either platform from the outside. So we don't really know what they will choose in the end. All I can say is that I feel that stick with the steam catapult for 002 may be the best route considering all the factors and tradeoffs.

 

[Intrepid]

Well, as an observer there is a completely different set of equipment, and electrical layout necessary for EMALs vs Steam. And it is a significant equipment difference.

I think, we as observers will not have any chance to see, what internal installations deep in the hull are made for either technic. The EMALS need heavy flywheels, the steam cat big pressure reservoires. May be, on a satellite photo both looks like big bowles.

 

[delft]

I think, we as observers will not have any chance to see, what internal installations deep in the hull are made for either technic. The EMALS need heavy flywheels, the steam cat big pressure reservoires. May be, on a satellite photo both looks like big bowles.

There is a newer technology to use instead of flywheels, super capacitors, which are likely to be more convenient and in the end more reliable and cheaper to use.

 

[Intrepid]

There is a newer technology to use instead of flywheels, super capacitors, which are likely to be more convenient and in the end more reliable and cheaper to use.

US Navy uses flywheels, four per group, three groups per ship, each weighing more than 80000 pounds. One is 13½ feet long, 11 feet wide and 7 feet tall. I guess, the Chinese navy will have a similar installation.

 

[Blitzo]

I was originally more optimistic and favorable to EMAILS vs. steam catapult, given what we heard about the statuses of both technologies. Over time, though, I'm leaning towards that eventually they will stay the course and stick to their original plan, i.e. steam catapult for 002.

The fundamental tradeoff is between reducing the long term logistic and training cost that comes with a uniform platform vs. time lost, redesign work and the inherent risks associated with newer technology. The additional benefits of staying the course would be being able to ramp up the training and deployment more quickly. These may not be as shining as showing off the new technology of EMAILS, but they're actually more important for PLAN at this stage. Besides, the original plan is not conservative at all.

There is obvious some ongoing internal discussion/debating among PLAN and policy people regarding the two options. We really don't know the real status and maturity of either platform from the outside. So we don't really know what they will choose in the end. All I can say is that I feel that stick with the steam catapult for 002 may be the best route considering all the factors and tradeoffs.

Is that based on your own opinion, or are there new rumours to have made you think that? Not being combative, I'm just wondering if there was any posts on the Chinese boards that I missed about this issue.

I personally felt like steam catapult would've been the likely choice back in 2014-2015, but late last year when we started hearing noise that a catapult competition would try to decide which catapult would be used on 002, and when we actually saw pictures of two different catapults being installed at Huangdicun, along with the recent post by fzgfzy earlier this year saying the schedule of construction of 002 might be delayed a little due to "competing schemes," then I seriously started thinking it can really go either way at this point.


I mean, if the Navy or CMC has done an assessment and viewed the EM catapult to potentially offer enough benefits to the table that they would consider doing an entire catapult competition, then the EM cat must have performed quite well in tests over the years to have a fighting chance with the steam catapult.

 

[weig2000]

Is that based on your own opinion, or are there new rumours to have made you think that? Not being combative, I'm just wondering if there was any posts on the Chinese boards that I missed about this issue.

I personally felt like steam catapult would've been the likely choice back in 2014-2015, but late last year when we started hearing noise that a catapult competition would try to decide which catapult would be used on 002, and when we actually saw pictures of two different catapults being installed at Huangdicun, along with the recent post by fzgfzy earlier this year saying the schedule of construction of 002 might be delayed a little due to "competing schemes," then I seriously started thinking it can really go either way at this point.


I mean, if the Navy or CMC has done an assessment and viewed the EM catapult to potentially offer enough benefits to the table that they would consider doing an entire catapult competition, then the EM cat must have performed quite well in tests over the years to have a fighting chance with the steam catapult.

It's based on my tea-leave reading and analysis. I haven't heard anything definitive one way or the other. As I said at the end, we don't really know the true status and it could go either way, but I'm leaning toward they will go with steam catapult. Time will tell, we'll see.

 

[Intrepid]

I mean, if the Navy or CMC has done an assessment and viewed the EM catapult to potentially offer enough benefits to the table that they would consider doing an entire catapult competition, then the EM cat must have performed quite well in tests over the years to have a fighting chance with the steam catapult.

The US-Navy is thinking about CV 80 (the third Ford-class carrier) to be fitted with old technic, because the new installations on CV 78 are unreliable. CV 79 can not be changed anymore. US uses EMALS since six years.

 

[Blitzo]

It's based on my tea-leave reading and analysis. I haven't heard anything definitive one way or the other. As I said at the end, we don't really know the true status and it could go either way, but I'm leaning toward they will go with steam catapult. Time will tell, we'll see.

Okay, in other words you're saying that after the catapult competition you think they'll go with steam catapult?

The US-Navy is thinking about CV 80 (the third Ford-class carrier) to be fitted with old technic, because the new installations on CV 78 are unreliable. CV 79 can not be changed anymore. US uses EMALS since six years.

Oh really? Do you have a source that I can read up on that more? A quick search has revealed nothing for me I'm afraid

 

[Jeff Head]

Okay, in other words you're saying that after the catapult competition you think they'll go with steam catapult?





Oh really? Do you have a source that I can read up on that more? A quick search has revealed nothing for me I'm afraid

CVN-79 and CVN-79 will put to sea with EMALS.

There have been some issues...but nothing that I have heard that would either:

1) Cause the Ford and the JFK not to go through trials, pass, and be commissioned.

or,

2) To cause CVN-80, USS Enterprise, to revert back to steam cats at all.

That would be HUGE news and could not be hidden.

The bugs will get worked out...and they will get worked out on the Ford and be applied to all succeeding carriers. They have successfully completed the dead weight trials, and they will put to sea and begin working the actual aircraft trials. In addition, I know people at the testing facility for EMALs and though they are tweaking some issues, they have been launching all sorts of aircraft with all sorts pof loads off of the land based facility for years now.