Blackstone
Brigadier
Re: ¦^��: Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
One picture shows a ski ramp and the other one doesn't. Which is more accurate?
One picture shows a ski ramp and the other one doesn't. Which is more accurate?
PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Re: ¦^��: Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
We waited years and years for progress on the Liaoning refit to get to a point where it was clear what they were doing...and although a few of us were very sure what the PLAN was going to do, at the time it was certainly not clear to all, and oh boy, was there a lot of specualtion regarding it.
Was it going to be a PLAN vessel or a casino or some other project? Was the PLAN going to turn into an operational carrier, or were they just going to thoroughly study it? Was it just going to be just for training purposes, or were they going to actually use it as a fully commissioned and fully STOBAR capable aircraft carrier?
I imagine now, once we see this building, we will all know what it is...and it will probably not take nearly as long for it to happen to begin with.
Time will tell.
Well, there are two, probably showing different mdules being built, but they are both just sketches...so I will wait for an actual photograph to substantiate whatever it is.
We waited years and years for progress on the Liaoning refit to get to a point where it was clear what they were doing...and although a few of us were very sure what the PLAN was going to do, at the time it was certainly not clear to all, and oh boy, was there a lot of specualtion regarding it.
Was it going to be a PLAN vessel or a casino or some other project? Was the PLAN going to turn into an operational carrier, or were they just going to thoroughly study it? Was it just going to be just for training purposes, or were they going to actually use it as a fully commissioned and fully STOBAR capable aircraft carrier?
I imagine now, once we see this building, we will all know what it is...and it will probably not take nearly as long for it to happen to begin with.
Time will tell.
Re: ¦^��: Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Both show that ramp ... one from the front and the other from the rear !??
Both show that ramp ... one from the front and the other from the rear !??
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
If I was building a carrier for real, and I am starting with a few major pieces, I don't think the extreme upper part of the bow with the ramp would be the first piece I build, because it wouldn't be one of the first pieces I would need to assemble the hull. I would more likely start with more crucial structures lower down on in the hull. like the middle part of the ship around the engineering spaces. These parts would be absolutely needed much sooner for anything like a hull to be built.
So if there is an actual piece like the one shown in the drawing being built, but there aren't evidence for other major blocks fow main parts of the hull already further alonhg in assembly, then I am going to guess the bow piece is another mockup, not part of the real carrier.
If I was building a carrier for real, and I am starting with a few major pieces, I don't think the extreme upper part of the bow with the ramp would be the first piece I build, because it wouldn't be one of the first pieces I would need to assemble the hull. I would more likely start with more crucial structures lower down on in the hull. like the middle part of the ship around the engineering spaces. These parts would be absolutely needed much sooner for anything like a hull to be built.
So if there is an actual piece like the one shown in the drawing being built, but there aren't evidence for other major blocks fow main parts of the hull already further alonhg in assembly, then I am going to guess the bow piece is another mockup, not part of the real carrier.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
looking at the Pictures and then comparing to the Liaoning the angel of the deck seems to have been flattened by the translation into a drawing. A proper ski jump would have more of a embankment. basically it comes down to who did the drawing. Really we need photos not concept art.
looking at the Pictures and then comparing to the Liaoning the angel of the deck seems to have been flattened by the translation into a drawing. A proper ski jump would have more of a embankment. basically it comes down to who did the drawing. Really we need photos not concept art.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
You are assuming a bit too many things.
1. Who said that the ski ramp was the first piece? There may be a lot of other module waiting in halls for assembly.
2. The mockup module clearly has a catapult trench, meaning that it most likely represents a flat top. The mockup seen earlier probably represents the follow on to the carrier seen here.
3. Besides, the mockup everybody was talking about was spotted just under a year ago while this section is brand new.
You are assuming a bit too many things.
1. Who said that the ski ramp was the first piece? There may be a lot of other module waiting in halls for assembly.
2. The mockup module clearly has a catapult trench, meaning that it most likely represents a flat top. The mockup seen earlier probably represents the follow on to the carrier seen here.
3. Besides, the mockup everybody was talking about was spotted just under a year ago while this section is brand new.
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
No one said it was the first, but we've seen no major sections of the hull assembled anywhere.
Normal assembly of ships, especially for a large and very complicated ships involving many sub assemblies like a carriers, involve fabricating hull section roughly in the order they are needed when the hull is assembled. The hull assembly of a carrier would last at least 2 years. When the first parts of the hull are assembled, the later parts would still be fabircated. There is no point of to making the subassemblies early because they would just take up space if they are not ready to be installed when they are fabricated. The part with the tip of the bow and the ramp would be one of the last big pieces needed to structurally finish the hull. The bulk of the hull needs to be fabricated and then assembled first, and the hull would probably have attained its full length, and is close to being ready to be fully closed up, before you would put on the pieces at the extreme bow with the ramp. So you would expect at least 80-90% of the hull pieces would be needed before you can get around to installing the bow piece.
So if the bow piece is already fabricated, where are all the rest of the bigger, more important pieces that would be needed? Just sitting in some enormous hangar waiting for a dock to free up?
No one said it was the first, but we've seen no major sections of the hull assembled anywhere.
Normal assembly of ships, especially for a large and very complicated ships involving many sub assemblies like a carriers, involve fabricating hull section roughly in the order they are needed when the hull is assembled. The hull assembly of a carrier would last at least 2 years. When the first parts of the hull are assembled, the later parts would still be fabircated. There is no point of to making the subassemblies early because they would just take up space if they are not ready to be installed when they are fabricated. The part with the tip of the bow and the ramp would be one of the last big pieces needed to structurally finish the hull. The bulk of the hull needs to be fabricated and then assembled first, and the hull would probably have attained its full length, and is close to being ready to be fully closed up, before you would put on the pieces at the extreme bow with the ramp. So you would expect at least 80-90% of the hull pieces would be needed before you can get around to installing the bow piece.
So if the bow piece is already fabricated, where are all the rest of the bigger, more important pieces that would be needed? Just sitting in some enormous hangar waiting for a dock to free up?
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
It is possilbe for China first to build a traditional carrier. Probably, only one of the two carriers (the demonstration modules in Dalian & Jiangnan) will be built. It is very remote that PLAN will invest additional 300 billion yuan RMB (R & D, equiptments, tools, manpower, training, building, testing, adjusting and redsign) for two "White Elephants." PLAN already said: "Soviet Carrier Programs & Chinese Liaoning Carrier Project came from wrong and long paths."
It is possilbe for China first to build a traditional carrier. Probably, only one of the two carriers (the demonstration modules in Dalian & Jiangnan) will be built. It is very remote that PLAN will invest additional 300 billion yuan RMB (R & D, equiptments, tools, manpower, training, building, testing, adjusting and redsign) for two "White Elephants." PLAN already said: "Soviet Carrier Programs & Chinese Liaoning Carrier Project came from wrong and long paths."
Re: ¦^��: Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Those two drawings are of the same module... the ski ramp just doesn't look as prominent in the first one
Those two drawings are of the same module... the ski ramp just doesn't look as prominent in the first one
Engineer
Major
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Well said. Look at how the US builds its carriers and one will see modules are laid beginning from the bottom. Even in the case of Queen Elizabeth class where multiple sections are built then joined together, the hangar and deck are not started until the lower hull is basically complete. This is another reason why the section we have seen in recent photographs should not be for a real ship. For the same reason, the section shown in the drawing should just be another mock up.
Well said. Look at how the US builds its carriers and one will see modules are laid beginning from the bottom. Even in the case of Queen Elizabeth class where multiple sections are built then joined together, the hangar and deck are not started until the lower hull is basically complete. This is another reason why the section we have seen in recent photographs should not be for a real ship. For the same reason, the section shown in the drawing should just be another mock up.