PLAN Carrier Construction

Intrepid

Intrepid

Major
TerraN_EmpirE said:
... so you can take of with a loaded prop plane with out a ramp from a 40K carrier.
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The cats on the Essex-class-carriers were used for the first aircraft of a deck-load. When the first aircraft had cleared the deck, the following aircraft had enough lenght to get airborne.

At the end of WWII simultanous landings and take offs were done with rearming and refueling aircraft in the middle of the deck. With this procedure the cats were mandatory.
 
S

Sczepan

Senior Member
VIP Professional
A.Man said:
This "Thing" Has Been There A While Ago. You Can Find It on 03/02/2013 images of Google Earth.

g4ik.jpg
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Sczepan said:
Dimensions of this toy (by google-maps):
Deck: ~ 44 m width,
Lift: ~ 15 m in lenght, ~ 10 m width
Height of Hangar: ~ 5 m

...
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additional:
L-15 Specifications
Crew: 2
Weight: Normal take-off 6,500kg; max take-off 9,500kg
Max Speed: Mach 1.4
Range: Combat radius over 550km
Service Ceiling: 16,000m
Max Climb Rate: 150m/s
G Limit: +8/-3
Dimensions of JL-15:
Length: 12.27 m, Wingspan: 9.48 m, Height: 4.81 m

JL-9 Specifications
Crew: 2
Weight: Normal take-off 7,800kg; max take-off 9,800kg
Max Speed: Mach 1.6
Range: Ferry range 2,500km
Service Ceiling: 16,000m
Max Climb Rate: 260m/s
G Limit: +8/-3
Length: 14.555 m (47 ft 9 in), Wingspan: 8.32 m (27 ft 3.5 in), Height: 4.105 m (13 ft 5.5 in);

hmmm :confused:
 

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D

delft

Brigadier
Sczepan said:
additional:
L-15 Specifications
Crew: 2
Weight: Normal take-off 6,500kg; max take-off 9,500kg
Max Speed: Mach 1.4
Range: Combat radius over 550km
Service Ceiling: 16,000m
Max Climb Rate: 150m/s
G Limit: +8/-3
Dimensions of JL-15:
Length: 12.27 m, Wingspan: 9.48 m, Height: 4.81 m

JL-9 Specifications
Crew: 2
Weight: Normal take-off 7,800kg; max take-off 9,800kg
Max Speed: Mach 1.6
Range: Ferry range 2,500km
Service Ceiling: 16,000m
Max Climb Rate: 260m/s
G Limit: +8/-3
Length: 14.555 m (47 ft 9 in), Wingspan: 8.32 m (27 ft 3.5 in), Height: 4.105 m (13 ft 5.5 in);

hmmm :confused:
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I don't know about L-15, but I wouldn't want to try to adapt JL-9 for use on a flattop.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
TerraN_EmpirE said:
One: I was using it as an example to show we were on the same page.

two: No Ski jump has Cats. the curve of the jump would jam the Cat. Even a EM cat. So its either Jump or Cat. doubling down screws up the works. When you look at the Russian Ulyanovsk deck layout the cats were to be placed on the angled deck not the jump.
The Jump Ramp was another British innovation it is designed to allow aircraft to take off safer with out cats for those same reason as cats. A aircraft with STOL features would be able to use a ramp just as easily as a Cat.
Because the Aim of your idea is not a full fighter jet but rather a light turbo prop attacker and your carrier would likely be used as a helicopter carrier to you could get away with more on a ramp.

Three: The Essex class Carrier weight in at 36,380 long tons and its first unit CV9 lacked cats fallow on units added cats. in fact Hanger deck cats were on the next eight until along side a single deck cat on the main deck the hanger cats were removed later on. so you can take of with a loaded prop plane with out a ramp from a 40K carrier.
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Re One: I mentioned Wyvern to show it used cats, as it did during the UK-French-Israeli assault on Egypt in 1956.

Re Two: The shuttle of an EM cat is a rail guided car propelled by a linear motor. It can follow a curved track if designed that way. Ulyanovsk was to have used steam cats that don't have that ability.
The oldest description of a ski ramp I saw concerned a launch track for a space vehicle in Australia, in a novel by Arthur C. Clark called "Prelude to Space", written in 1947 and first published in 1951.
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.
RN had the Harrier with its Pegasus engine available and to save political costs it called the ships "through deck cruisers" and it was happy not to fit angle decks or cats. Those cats would have needed a separate steam plant which would have had a significant effect on the displacement of the ship.
The idea about cats and traps is that is is better to build STOL performance into the ship rather than into the aircraft. Compare F-35B and -C.
My idea of combining ramp and cat in a smaller package is that development will be cheaper than when you immediately go the the full scale system needed in a CV as well as saving deck space for the helicopters &c. while launching UAV's from the smaller vessel compared with using only a cat or only a ramp.

Re Three: Well answered by Intrepid.
 
S

Sczepan

Senior Member
VIP Professional
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South China Morning Post

Xi Jinping sends signal to neighbours with high-profile tour of Liaoning aircraft carrier
President greets sailors and commends flight crews at Dalian base

Saturday, 31 August, 2013, 11:01am

President Xi Jinping has paid his first visit to the country's sole aircraft carrier - a trip that analysts said was designed to send a strong message to regional rivals. Xi's inspection tour of the Liaoning in Dalian followed a series of naval advancements by China's neighbours, including Japan's launch of its largest military vessel since the second world war, the helicopter-carrier Izumo.
...

Before boarding, Xi visited a People's Liberation Army naval training base to watch aircraft that will use the carrier practice landing exercises. Xi praised the pilots' performance and skills under complex weather conditions. The Liaoning's design allows it to carry about 30 fixed-wing aircraft, and the navy is still practising deck landings.
...

Yue Gang, a retired PLA colonel, said Xi's inspection tour was aimed at sending a signal to Tokyo. "It means China is developing its strategic weapon," Yue said. "China needs to further improve this weapon and should not be complacent with its recent [naval] advancement."

Ministry of National Defence spokesman Yang Yujun said on Thursday that although the Liaoning was China's first aircraft carrier, "there will surely be more in future".
...

In February, the PLA's main ship contractor, the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation, said the Ministry of Science and Technology had approved funding for two research projects, including core technologies and safety studies for nuclear-powered ships.

Since taking power in November, Xi has paid regular visits to military facilities and urged PLA leaders to speed up their modernisation programme. He has placed particular focus on building a blue-water fleet, which he has described as necessary for securing China's revival.
....
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that's it: "the Ministry of Science and Technology had approved funding for two research projects". So we have two different ships - the one "Liaoning-like" in Dalian and the one with cat in Shanghai.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Intrepid said:
Could be a competition that leads to only one class of ships. Or one ship-class soon and the other (nuclear powered?) later.
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Doubt it. Carriers aren't mass produced at any scale to warrant such practices. Far more likely that designs will be chronologically iterative until one is perfected to the PLAN's needs.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
" including core technologies and safety studies for nuclear-powered ships."
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I would understand it as:
project on nuclear propulsion technology for later flattops
and
project to build one flattop
 
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