TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I thought the Chinese were working on the CJ7 turboprop flight trainer based on the Yak-152.
PLAN Carrier Construction
- Thread starter escobar
- Start date
CJ-7 is a primary trainer developed by Hongdu with help from Yakovlev and based on the Yak-152. Both use a nine cylinder radial engine.
A small trainer for initial deck flying will be more strongly built and considerably heavier, something of the size and weight of the Super Tucano but even more strongly built. I would like a twin engine aircraft with coaxial propeller.
I also think this smaller carrier might be fitted with EM cats, either in the waist or, my preference, in the ski ramp. These cats might have a third or half the power of cats in main carriers so this might lead to saving money on the development of EM cats. And the aircraft must be designed to use these cats.
most western LPHs using VSTOL (Harrier-) - planes, but China didn't have those planes. So they need light-weight fighters to do the same job. And to launch these fighters, they need catapult - and angled deck for landing ...
The US spent many years without Harriers on the Amphibious ships. The entire service life of the seven Iwo Jima Class LPHs, most of the service life of the five Taraw class LHAs. It was at the tail end of the Tarawa class and the entore life now of the Wasp Class (whiuch was specifically designed to operate the Harrier AV-8B) before the Harriers came into place.
The French do not have them, Russia does not have them (nor will they with their new Mistrals). Australia is not planning to. Korea does not. Japan does not with their Osumi Class which are their largest amphibiouis ships. And now, the Royal Navy does not. They all use helicopters to give ground support to their amphibious assault or air assault troops.
In fact, for Amphibious assault, really only the US and the UK used Harriees in that role.
The Italians had their Harries for a sea control role on a carrier outfitted for that. The Spanish did the same. Now both have build hybrid carriers that can do both roles (sea control and amphibious operations), and they did that because they could not afford to build both and wanted to maximize their flexability.
China has the money and the will to do both...like the US...and I expect that is what they are going to do.
Their cats and attack fighters (fixed wing aircraft) will operate off of their true carriers.
It is possible to launch UAVs and even something like an OV-10 Bronco off of a straight deck amphib...and perhaps the Chinese will do someything like that, but I still rate that as an outside chance (except the UAVs).
I will predict, with almost 100% certainty, that they do not put cats on their amphibious assault ships. Their cats, when they finally get to them, will be on their carriers.
But that is just my opinion and as in all things, time will tell.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Okay I get you. Sort of a
but for a turboprop you don't need cats. They are nice sure, but for the role your talking about a Stobar would do just as well in fact Cats might be over kill as a good turboprop attacker has a lighter frame then a Jet and would be able to take it's full take off weight of arms with out assistance. heck you don't even need a angled deck. basically you would be building a craft comparable to a American Essex-class aircraft carrier re envisioned as a LHA... well kinda.
You use cats because a fighter Jet is too heavy to take off under it's own power at the speeds offered. These speeds created the full change to Cats and the advent of the Angled deck.
joshuatree
Captain
I thought the advent of the angled deck stemmed from the desire to speed up the tempo of operations, being able to land and launch quickly, as well as adding in safety with a landing plane angled away from other planes?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
If that were the case then surely angled decks would be universal across all carriers'. The angled deck was developed in the post second world war Royal navy by then captain Dennis Cambell and his secretary. Captain Cambell was tasked with finding a way to keep the navy relevant in the jet age.
he realized one of the problems of landing a jet is it carries a lot more speed on touch down and even with wires the aircraft would be in forward momentum. But if the deck were put at an angle it is almost like having a second deck.
now the ease of simultaneously operating launching and recovery was a bonus.
now look at the carrier fleets of the world.just about all the vtol fighter carriers lack angled decks. This is because as vtol fighters they all land almost vertically or at very low speeds and don't need a separate landing strip. A turboprop attacker would likewise have a very low stall speed and weight compared to a navy fighter jet so a angled deck is unnecessary.
he realized one of the problems of landing a jet is it carries a lot more speed on touch down and even with wires the aircraft would be in forward momentum. But if the deck were put at an angle it is almost like having a second deck.
now the ease of simultaneously operating launching and recovery was a bonus.
now look at the carrier fleets of the world.just about all the vtol fighter carriers lack angled decks. This is because as vtol fighters they all land almost vertically or at very low speeds and don't need a separate landing strip. A turboprop attacker would likewise have a very low stall speed and weight compared to a navy fighter jet so a angled deck is unnecessary.
A2D failed, trouble with engine and gearbox. But of its British counterpart, the Westand Wyvern, just less than 130 were built and they killed 13 pilots, mostly when the engine was starved during a cat launch and they dropped into the sea. It took a long time before that fault was corrected.
You use cats to reduce the deck area used for launching your aircraft and leave a larger area for other functions. You might be able take off from a 100k CVN without cats and without clearing a large part of the deck but possibly not from a 40k CV or LPH. Think of the third take off position on Adm K and Liaoning.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
One: I was using it as an example to show we were on the same page.
two: No Ski jump has Cats. the curve of the jump would jam the Cat. Even a EM cat. So its either Jump or Cat. doubling down screws up the works. When you look at the Russian Ulyanovsk deck layout the cats were to be placed on the angled deck not the jump.
The Jump Ramp was another British innovation it is designed to allow aircraft to take off safer with out cats for those same reason as cats. A aircraft with STOL features would be able to use a ramp just as easily as a Cat.
Because the Aim of your idea is not a full fighter jet but rather a light turbo prop attacker and your carrier would likely be used as a helicopter carrier to you could get away with more on a ramp.
Three: The Essex class Carrier weight in at 36,380 long tons and its first unit CV9 lacked cats fallow on units added cats. in fact Hanger deck cats were on the next eight until along side a single deck cat on the main deck the hanger cats were removed later on. so you can take of with a loaded prop plane with out a ramp from a 40K carrier.
two: No Ski jump has Cats. the curve of the jump would jam the Cat. Even a EM cat. So its either Jump or Cat. doubling down screws up the works. When you look at the Russian Ulyanovsk deck layout the cats were to be placed on the angled deck not the jump.
The Jump Ramp was another British innovation it is designed to allow aircraft to take off safer with out cats for those same reason as cats. A aircraft with STOL features would be able to use a ramp just as easily as a Cat.
Because the Aim of your idea is not a full fighter jet but rather a light turbo prop attacker and your carrier would likely be used as a helicopter carrier to you could get away with more on a ramp.
Three: The Essex class Carrier weight in at 36,380 long tons and its first unit CV9 lacked cats fallow on units added cats. in fact Hanger deck cats were on the next eight until along side a single deck cat on the main deck the hanger cats were removed later on. so you can take of with a loaded prop plane with out a ramp from a 40K carrier.