PLAN Carrier Construction

I believe we shall see a 2nd Liaonong style carrier from China which is kind of ironic because the Soviet Union had built two Kuznetsov Class carriers back in the 1980s

Actually if we look at it we can see China is where the Soviet Union was in terms of flat tops almost 30 years ago

But Soviets also had 2 x Mosvka Class, 4 x Kiev Class, 2 x Kuznetsov Class and the incomplete Ulyanovsk that's 9 flat tops

Plus the heavy hitters 5 x Kirov Class (1 incomplete) battle cruisers and 4 x Slava (1 incomplete)

In in terms of single tonnage warships Soviets had hell of a fleet back in 1980s almost all were gone in 1990s

I'm just thinking where they would have been by year 2000 if they never collapsed, maybe atleast 2-3 Ulyanovsk Class carriers or even more

Big dreams and big plans that never materialised or you can say maybe they did materialise, today the day belongs to China and now we can see China rise, I say very exciting times

asif iqbal said:

But Soviets also 2 x Mosvka Class, 4 x Kiev Class, 2 x Kuznetsov Class and the incomplete Ulyanovsk that's 9 flat tops

Plus the heavy hitters 5 x Kirov Class (1 incomplete) battle cruisers and 4 x Slava (1 incomplete)

I'm just thinking where they would have been by year 2000 if they never collapsed, maybe atleast 2-3 Ulyanovsk Class carriers or even more .

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Well, the Moskvas were getting long in the tooth even in 1990. I would not call them "flat tops."

But the Kievs were decent and had the Russians developed the Yak-141 and produced it, they would have finally had a decent air wing capability for them.

Both Kuznetsovs and a couple of Ulyanovsks would have been potent with SU-33s and now Mig-29Ks.

Had the USSR continued, or had the Russians been economically able to continue, the Russian Navy now would have had 4 Kiev class carrier with some decent capability, 2 Kusnetsov STOBAR carriers with very good capabilities, and two Ulyanovsk carriers (which would have been STOBAR/CATOBAR hybrids) with capabilities that only the US carriers could excel. Eight Carriers in all.

As it is, the Chinese have (IMHO) improved on the Kuznetsov and will end up with two improved vessels of that class, and then will start their own full CATOBAR carriers. I also believe we are going to see them build several of the Type 075 LHA vessels that only the Wasp and America classes will have greater capabilities.

By 2030, perhaps the Chinese will have five carriers and four LHAs...all of them modern and very capable.

In both absolute capability and relative strength, PLAN is still very far short in every area compared to where the Soviet navy was the 1980s.

chuck731 said:

In both absolute capability and relative strength, PLAN is still very far short in every area compared to where the Soviet navy was the 1980s.

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Of course they were...and are.

Just look at the numbers and capabilities of nuclear attack subs and nuclear ballistic missile subs the Soviets had!

Not to mention numbers of DDGs, FFGs, and the regiments of naval air the Soviets had backing them all up.

But, that was then, and this is now. The Russian Navy today is but a shadow of what it once was.

And the PLAN is building rapidly, modernizing rapidly, and developing their doctrine to match. Their new DDGs, their LPDs, their new FFGs are very capable vessels by today's standards. They are beginning to put some credible SSN into the water too. Although the Liaoning is significantly behind US carrier technology, it is still (outside the US) right up there with the best carriers available to anyone else, and they are going to build more and keep pushing the envelope.

it will be an interesting next couple of decades.

chuck731 said:

In both absolute capability and relative strength, PLAN is still very far short in every area compared to where the Soviet navy was the 1980s.

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True in terms of relative size and quantity but if you take away their sub surface fleet and take into account PLAN is concentrating mainly on the Pacific while the former USSR was pretty much spread out all over the place, then they are more at par with each other. For example, if you take away the Soviet Navy's powerful Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Sea fleet then their numbers and capabilities would decrease significantly.

You are also comparing a navy at it's peak with one that is only relatively starting out in it's expansion plan so it's not a fair comparison at this point.
To have a better matchup you have to compare apples to apples.

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chuck731 said:

In both absolute capability and relative strength, PLAN is still very far short in every area compared to where the Soviet navy was the 1980s.

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I think the greater point of interest isn't in where the PLAN is at right now, but where they will be 10, 20, 30, or 50 years from now. It would be a mistake not to account for rate of growth when your interest is in future understanding and comparisons of strength and not present ones.

Jeff Head said:

As it is, the Chinese have (IMHO) improved on the Kuznetsov and will end up with two improved vessels of that class, and then will start their own full CATOBAR carriers. I also believe we are going to see them build several of the Type 075 LHA vessels that only the Wasp and America classes will have greater capabilities.

By 2030, perhaps the Chinese will have five carriers and four LHAs...all of them modern and very capable.

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I sense Dragon's Fury II coming to a bookstore near you...

Blackstone said:

I sense Dragon's Fury II coming to a bookstore near you...

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I would happily pay for Dragon's Fury part II if there ever will be one

perfume said:

I would happily pay for Dragon's Fury part II if there ever will be one

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Oh, y'all stop it...please, come on, just stop it! LOL!

According to recent news, an engineer serving on the Liaoning recently received a first class distinction award from Xi Jinping himself. Rumor has it that the engineer solved an issue related to boiler efficiency. According to the same rumor, the issue was what holding back China from starting construction on the first domestic carrier.