PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles

Iron Man said:

The greater vanity by far is people who look at the YJ-18, see that it looks EXACTLY like the Klub, know that the Chinese actually possess the Klub missile itself, and then turn around and have the gall to say that the Chinese only took the exterior and did everything else internal by themselves. That is nearly incomprehensible fly-in-the-face-of-reason vanity.

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Like how the HQ9 is a copy of the S300?

Never mind the claimed double range, smaller size and lighter weight, appearances is apparently all that matters to you. Just how much of the internals could the Chinese have taken to achieve such a feat?

And once again your ego cannot handle the audacity of anyone dearing to have a different view, and here comes the personal attacks.

I'd like to point out that the YJ-18's "540 km" range figure was first mentioned by the 2015 DoD Annual Report to Congress.

Link here (the original text mentions 290 nautical miles):

latenlazy said:

I wasn't even responding to you on the comment you seem to be taking exception to. Spare us the insecure assholery.

You accused me of saying something I didn't. That's not a straw man. If you think I'm wrong quote where I said we should take claims as fact because China. Maybe look at yourself first if you find strawmen so condemnable.

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Wow, you sound real butthurt. Youmadbro? You directly implied that I thought China was incapable of matching a domestic Russian range because I thought China was inferior, despite you having no backup for that domestic range in the first place. And now your snowflake ego is bruised because I shut that line of useless argumentation down immediately.

Second, your straw man was CLEARLY explained to you, and had nothing to do with what you said, but rather what you claimed that I said, namely your claim that I somewhere stated that China was incapable of achieving a 500km modification. So basically this is a straw man layered over another straw man. I honestly can't say if I've ever seen this online before. ROFLMAO

SinoSoldier said:

The figures were spouted by Russian outlets a few years back (hence the term "reported"), but their credibility cannot be gauged.

The 3M54E, nevertheless, would have been downgraded to meet MTCR restrictions, so it is quite unlikely that a domestic Russian variant would have the same range as the "E".

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I have already addressed this point above.

plawolf said:

Like how the HQ9 is a copy of the S300?

Never mind the claimed double range, smaller size and lighter weight, appearances is apparently all that matters to you. Just how much of the internals could the Chinese have taken to achieve such a feat?

And once again your ego cannot handle the audacity of anyone dearing to have a different view, and here comes the personal attacks.

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Oh wait, did I say somewhere that the HQ-9 is a "copy" of the S-300? Did you know that straw man attacks are a sign of weakness? Wait, is that considered a personal attack? Oops.

Iron Man said:

First off, I said we need to express a healthy degree of skepticism about the 500km claim, not that it was impossible for the Chinese to accomplish, assuming it is actually physically possible in the first place

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It sounds a lot like you're saying, we need to express a healthy skepticism, not that it's impossible for China to accomplish, except I don't think it's physically possible in the first place.

Also, I don't think Sinosoldier needs my gratitude (let me know if you want credit Sinosoldier). He's making the same point I am about how the same missile exterior doesn't suggest anything about whether a range figure is possible or likely, except by pointing out that Russia may have also squeezed out the same improvements from the klub you seem to find so incomprehensible.

SinoSoldier said:

I'd like to point out that the YJ-18's "540 km" range figure was first mentioned by the 2015 DoD Annual Report to Congress.

Link here (the original text mentions 290 nautical miles):

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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Is this the same report that lists the HQ-9's range as 100km or 120km? Among other technical errors, we all know this report is not a bible for the PLAN's technical minutiae.

Iron Man said:

Is this the same report that lists the HQ-9's range as 100km or 120km? Among other technical errors, we all know this report is not a bible for the PLAN's technical minutiae.

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ROFLMAO it is the very same report. Take a look at p. 89. The circles drawn by this report clearly indicates the US military's alleged belief that the HHQ-9 has a range of 100km and the S-A-N-20 has a range of 200km. Who here wants to agree with this HHQ-9 range? I'm expecting not many. And by that I mean not any. LOL

Iron Man said:

Wow, you sound real butthurt. Youmadbro?

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Are you upset? You seem to feel the need to lash out when someone calls you insecure. I'm not the one trying very hard with the angry abuses here...Who's butthurt here?

You directly implied that I thought China was incapable of matching a domestic Russian range because I thought China was inferior, despite you having no backup for that domestic range in the first place. And now your snowflake ego is bruised because I shut that line of useless argumentation down immediately.

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Quote me where I said any of that. See, putting words in my mouth.

Second, your straw man was CLEARLY explained to you, and had nothing to do with what you said, but rather what you claimed that I said, namely your claim that I somewhere stated that China was incapable of achieving a 500km modification. So basically this is a straw man layered over another straw man. I honestly can't say if I've ever seen this online before. ROFLMAO.

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What straw man? I didn't address the point to you, or did you not recognize that *your name wasn't in the quote I was responding to?*


Is that forced ROFLMAO the ones with the angry tears in them?

Iron Man said:

There may be some confusion given that you may not have been following this thread very closely. My initial emphasis on external appearance was to establish a definitive lineage of the YJ-18 from the Klub. Some earlier posters would not even admit to this gratuitously obvious fact. Subsequent posters are clearly advanced beyond this and the discussion has been about the degree of internal modification.

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I follow what you say and my previous few replies have been under the impression of what you described as well.

Putting it another way, what I'm saying is that there are two sides to this argument, one which emphasizes the lineage and similarities from 3m-54e to YJ-18, and one which emphasizes the potential differences more.

latenlazy said:

Are you upset? You seem to feel the need to lash out when someone calls you insecure. I'm not the one trying very hard with the angry abuses here...Who's butthurt here?





Quote me where I said any of that. See, putting words in my mouth.




What straw man? I didn't address the point to you, or did you not recognize that *your name wasn't in the quote I was responding to?*


Is that forced ROFLMAO the ones with the angry tears in them?

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WOW, just wow. You seriously need to just man up and admit to your own statements.

Here is what Sinosoldier said:
"Keep in mind that the 200 km figure is only for the export variant, the 3M54E. Domestic Russian iterations have reported ranges of 400-600 km."

Here is your response:
"But of course achieving a similar with the same chassis is impossible for China because China, right?"

It would take a mental retard not to recognize that here you are accusing specifically me of believing that the Chinese are incapable of matching a Russian domestic range simply because of the fact that they are Chinese. If you are such an intellectually dishonest wretch that you can't even own up to your own words, why do you even bother to open your mouth in the first place?

Iron Man said:

WOW, just wow. You seriously need to just man up and admit to your own statements.

Here is what Sinosoldier said:
"Keep in mind that the 200 km figure is only for the export variant, the 3M54E. Domestic Russian iterations have reported ranges of 400-600 km."

Here is your response:
"But of course achieving a similar with the same chassis is impossible for China because China, right?"

It would take a mental retard not to recognize that here you are accusing specifically me of believing that the Chinese are incapable of matching a Russian domestic range simply because of the fact that they are Chinese. If you are such an intellectually dishonest wretch that you can't even own up to your own words, why do you even bother to open your mouth in the first place?

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If you were more civil in these discussions we wouldn't have to wade through 3 pages are garbage back and forth that add nothing to the topic. I too like /k/ but you ought to realize that the posting standards a SDF and 4chan are quite different. Adapt your tone to the setting.