PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles
- Thread starter tphuang
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So...if it's not an exact copy then what precludes it from being upgraded from the klub? Again, it wouldn't be the first time that missiles that look identical from the outside have significant differences in performance. China does that with their own missiles. Why not a design they've indigenized?
yeah, we all know that all ICBMs look the same, a long tube with a pointy head. I guess they are all replicas of each other. Very convincing. Not saying whether one specific missile is or is not a replica, but simply point out that "similarity or same" does not tell much meaningful thing.
Until we get some harder proof, I am personally thinking it is more likely China did get a licence to make klub from Russia. They may have very well modified it to some degree, but the DNA is still very much similar. Heck, if it is true that yj-18 was started back in 2000 then it's also possible that yj-18 and kalibr are actually a product of further refinement and cooperation on the basic design idea. Much like there was cooperation on refining the original oniks missile in shape of brahmos project.
"exact copy" was never put forward in that exact order.
The original wording was "close replica" and "exactly like" in the same post. I think most people including me have interpreted these two phrases in the same sentence as "exact copy". Maybe all our English is so bad to misunderstand.
This is really an argument over narrative.
On the one hand, saying it looks like 3m-54e and saying China has had klub for many years, and describing it as a close replica, portrays the missile's capability and makes certain implications towards Chinese industrial capability/technology/design etc...
On the other hand, saying that the missile looks like 3m-54e but that it may have substantial differences from it with an emphasis on the internals of the missile which we cannot see, implies other things about Chinese industrial capability/technology/design etc.
Both are in effect saying similar things, but one sounds less charitable while one sounds more charitable, relatively speaking, and I think most of us are pretty aware of how different phrasing of the same thing can have very different implications.
On the one hand, saying it looks like 3m-54e and saying China has had klub for many years, and describing it as a close replica, portrays the missile's capability and makes certain implications towards Chinese industrial capability/technology/design etc...
On the other hand, saying that the missile looks like 3m-54e but that it may have substantial differences from it with an emphasis on the internals of the missile which we cannot see, implies other things about Chinese industrial capability/technology/design etc.
Both are in effect saying similar things, but one sounds less charitable while one sounds more charitable, relatively speaking, and I think most of us are pretty aware of how different phrasing of the same thing can have very different implications.
The real question is whether we believe Henri K's claims about the YJ-18's potential range. Everything else in this discussion is proxy to that contention.
They HAVE indigenized it. It's called the YJ-18. Just like they indigenized the Su-27. Which is now called the J-11B. And if you actually read what I wrote to you before in this very thread, it is certainly possible they have improved upon it. But what I said before, and I'll say again, is that there needs to be some level of skepticism about the claim of "500km" which is more than double the prior range of 220km in a missile which is also claimed to be smaller than the 3M54E, which itself is a missile already packed full with two different motors.
Can you name even ONE other missile that has a nose and air intake like what we see on the YJ-18 and the Klub:
This has absolutely nothing to do with whether something "sounds" more or less "charitable". We're not drinking tea and eating crumpets here. We are straight up making potentially dramatically different statements about the extent of modification of the Klub into the current design of the YJ-18.
Uhhh...reread what I said, because I wasn't arguing that they didn't indigenize it.