SinoSoldier
Colonel
Keep in mind that the 200 km figure is only for the export variant, the 3M54E. Domestic Russian iterations have reported ranges of 400-600 km.
PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Indeed?
Over the last few pages I see that you've emphasized how YJ-18 externally looks identical to 3m-54e but saying it is not an exact copy, while others are talking less about how much it looks like 3m-54e and talking about the potential degree of internal differences and modifications there are.
Both arguments make headnods to points that the other makes, but has emphasis on different parts of what is known and unknown about the missile.
No, I can not. But neither any ICBMs in my analogue are 100% same looking. All I wanted to say is that even two things look 90% the same does not necessarily mean they are related.
Yes, I noticed that you believe that the looks of a Klub and YJ-18 is exactly the same (100%). I have not reached that conclusion yet due to the fact that all photos of YJ-18 is of low quality.
However I can make example (not nose and air intake, but otherwise "identical"). XASM-3 and Meteor are only distinguishable if I have clear photos from different angels and resolution high enough to see the markings. I won't be able to tell them apart if photo of one is very low resolution and blurry, maybe you can, I don't know. By bring up these two, I want to say that if we only have very blurry photo of one of them, it will appear exactly the same as the other, but the reality is that they are not. P.S. I see the difference is the location of the tail fins, not able to tell in dimensions.
But of course achieving a similar with the same chassis is impossible for China because China, right?
Can you point to a reliable source other than Wikipedia that lists the domestic version as having a range of 600km?
There may be some confusion given that you may not have been following this thread very closely. My initial emphasis on external appearance was to establish a definitive lineage of the YJ-18 from the Klub. Some earlier posters would not even admit to this gratuitously obvious fact. Subsequent posters are clearly advanced beyond this and the discussion has been about the degree of internal modification.
When I say "exactly the same" I don't necessarily have to mean a technical 100%. If a wire is placed slightly off or the fins aren't 100% exactly the same shape I would still count myself correct in my statement. The point is that when you see the YJ-18 and you see the Klub you can tell they are the same missile on the outside, just like identical twins aren't actually 100% identical but you know they have the same DNA that came from the same womb. In other words, there is not some other missile that the YJ-18 "closely replicates" except the Klub itself.
But of course you would take such a statement as fact without confirmation because China, right?
Oh, I'm taking it as fact now? Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not arguing that this is a certainty. You were arguing against the possibility. Besides, since when was it ever sound to assume the range of an export variant was the max range of a design?
Oh, I see. You were just being your usual snide self without actual facts to support your snideness, only "possibilities". And now a bonus straw man attack and a new argument that just popped into your head. LOL
First off, I said we need to express a healthy degree of skepticism about the 500km claim, not that it was impossible for the Chinese to accomplish, assuming it is actually physically possible in the first place. If you think I claimed that it was not possible at any point in this thread, please go ahead and link and quote me. Anywhere. Go ahead, tough guy. Back yourself up for once.
Second, you should give sinosoldier credit for your latest attempt at rebuttal LOL. In any case, when ranges are decreased for export purposes, I know of but one reason, and that is to get around the MTCR-imposed limit of 300km. Usually you know this is the case when exported missiles' ranges are reported as "300km" or "290km", or some similar range close to 300. I haven't seen a range reduced to "220km" before the purpose of MTCR. Maybe you can help me think of a reason why the Russians would skimp on 70-80km from their Chinese customers.
Ya, that was really classy. Someone with far too high opinion of himself
I wasn't even responding to you on the comment you seem to be taking exception to. Spare us the insecure assholery.
You accused me of saying something I didn't. That's not a straw man. If you think I'm wrong quote where I said we should take claims as fact because China. Maybe look at yourself first if you find strawmen so condemnable.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
The figures were spouted by Russian outlets a few years back (hence the term "reported"), but their credibility cannot be gauged.
The 3M54E, nevertheless, would have been downgraded to meet MTCR restrictions, so it is quite unlikely that a domestic Russian variant would have the same range as the "E".