PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Mr. Jeff Head, you are thinking, speaking, judging and behaving at a different start line with those pirates. You missed the basic fundamental of giving the hopeless of helps-give the tool not the food!

Many of your thinkiings are on the wrong side of the history.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

As a 57 year old man who's done a lot of living..I agree with Jeff.

To me the Pirates are nothing more than criminals that need to be dealt with as such. Simple. The point of a gun is the best way to accomplish this.

A couple of years ago you guys were not crying for the pirates when they attacked the Chinese civilian ship and those brave Chinese merchant men fought back? Remember that?(just go to the first page of this thread) I do..It's no different today. The pirates are criminals and need to be dealt with accordling. Simple.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

not to get too off topic BUT looking at those old, worn and rusty Kalashnikovs just bear testament to the extreme robustness of the design!
Geez!
If it's been any other make of rifles there is no doubt they would be nothing more than paperweight

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

A.Man said:

You missed the basic fundamental of giving the hopeless of helps-give the tool not the food!

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I think what A.Man is trying to say is give the man a fishing pole, not a fish. While that may sound good in theory, it is a lot more difficult to put into practice. You cannot establish rule of law, build infrastructure, and create jobs overnight. And ultimately, like Jeff said, although international aid may speed up the process, it is up to the people of Somali themselves to pull themselves up from their bootstraps. Without determination from the Somali side, any form of aid would just be tossing the Somalis fish, not giving them a fishing pole. Otherwise, aid will just be squandered or hoarded by the few.

The the best long term solution to the problem may be for the Somalis to create the political and economic conditions for self-sustainability, order, and prosperity, it is not something that can be done overnight. You cannot appease the pirates by giving them hand-outs, that will only embolden and drive them to ask for more.

P.S- I doubt that all the pirates are starving fisherman... these people are asking for ransoms on the high hundred thousands to the millions. They are not simply trying to feed their families.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

bd popeye said:

As a 57 year old man who's done a lot of living..I agree with Jeff.

To me the Pirates are nothing more than criminals that need to be dealt with as such. Simple. The point of a gun is the best way to accomplish this.

A couple of years ago you guys were not crying for the pirates when they attacked the Chinese civilian ship and those brave Chinese merchant men fought back? Remember that?(just go to the first page of this thread) I do..It's no different today. The pirates are criminals and need to be dealt with accordling. Simple.

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How can they live in their own country. When a new government structure might be developed, so that the economy might be start to regrow in a stable environment it is attacked by Ethiopia and USN because the country must be governed by that bunch of nincompoops parachuted into Mogadishu.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

A.Man said:

Mr. Jeff Head...Many of your thinkiings are on the wrong side of the history.

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Sorry, when it comes to piracy, the thinking is distinctly NOT on the wrong side of history. Piracy has been handled a certain way for centruries, and it has proven effective.

it needs to be re-sintituted now.

This speaks only to the piracy issue...not to the plight of the vast majority of the Somalis, which is a different issue entirely. Most Somalis are not choosing to take to the seas with Aks and RPG and take from other people and threaten the sea lanes.

As I stated, that solution will require a lot more work and sacrifice particularly on the part of the Somali people themselves as they establish governance amongst themselves that is fair and equitable...and they are the ones who will have to do most of that lifing...otherwise it is not theirs, they do not own or respect it, and it is wasted.

History has also shown this to be the case for people wanting to pull themselves up and establish equitable conditions amongst themselves.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

delft said:

How can they live in their own country. When a new government structure might be developed, so that the economy might be start to regrow in a stable environment it is attacked by Ethiopia and USN because the country must be governed by that bunch of nincompoops parachuted into Mogadishu.

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Delft excuse me, I do not understand what point you are trying to make.

It's up to Somalia to re-establish itself as a self standing country. With of course with the aid of other nations. How will this happen? I have no clue. Somalia has been in turmoil for many years and is a problem not solved over night.

In the meanwhile and I repeat. The pirates are criminals and must be dealt with as such.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

This is a set of circumstances that did happen as you describe However, your adding your own emotion and slant to the set of facts.

Given what happened in America on 911, and given the militant Islamic terror attacks in other countries since (England, Indonesia, New Delhi, Madrid, Moscow, Saudi, Egypt, etc., etc.) having a nation like that the US that is capable of preventing a fundamental Islamic power from forming can also be understood.

Ethiopia has its own interests in the area to keep that from happening as well...although they helped stop it, I would not catergorize them as American lap dogs. They are also acting out of self interest.

Bottom line is, had such a government formed and once again become a haven for the likes of Al Quida, the resulting warfare in Somalia would probably have ended up being worse still.

Such is the state of affairs in our world and I sincerely hope the cycle can end. It will not end by people becoming pirates instead, and it will not end by embracing an ideology that would give safe haven to militant Islamic terrorists of any kind.

Just pointing out that there are two sides to the story. Sadly...it is a sordid story and the people of Somalia are going to have a hard time getting out of it unless they choose some form of government in today's environment that is not apt to invite a militant islamic government to step in and take root there.

Same will go for Egypt and Jordan IMHO. Even with the Obama administration, as liberal as they are for my own likes, I do not believe they will allow Egypt to destabilize to the point where a movement for more liberty and republican based government is hijacked by militant islam.

Time will tell...I hope it does not go that way because it will probably lead to much much worse than what the Egyptians have experienced even under their current government...but that is just my own opinion.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

xinhuanet news said:

SANAA, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- The Somali pirates hijacked a Chinese-flagged commercial ship off Yemen's western city port of al- Hudaida in the Red Sea, Chinese military attache to Yemen confirmed to Xinhua on Saturday.

The Chinese military confirmed that the Chinese-flagged commercial ship, which was registered in Hongkong, China, had been hijacked by the Somali pirates off the Yemeni coast, Chinese military attache to Yemen told Xinhua.

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The artcile indicates a multi-national coalition naval effort to intercept the vessel. I hope they are successful and free the hostages, retake the ship and deal out justice to the pirates.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Jeff Head said:

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The artcile indicates a multi-national coalition naval effort to intercept the vessel. I hope they are successful and free the hostages, retake the ship and deal out justice to the pirates.

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The latest news is that the vessel was being attacked by pirates but wasn't hijacked, currently it has joined the 7th expedition fleet's 293th escort convoy.