PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Jeff Head said:

I loved the A-7 Corsair II. i worked on that aircraft while at Vought in the late 70's. Great attack aircraft and could loiter for a long while to help the ground troops.

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Yes, it was a sweetheart, while the F-8 Crusader was a handful, even with its variable incidence wing, the A-7 was the safest airplane in the inventory, and would outurn the Mig-21, it was a gunfighter, with the A-7 we were back in the shooting match, it was flown by the Air Force and the Navy, not sure about the Marines. There is one on a pedastill in Edwardsville, Ill and I have taken several pictures of it, it is a lovely airplane, doesn't it have a dog-tooth in the wing Jeff? the F-4 had one for improved turning???? brat

Engineer said:

Launch speed would be the same, but acceleration would be different, hence force would also be different.

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Does it mean, that the maximum force of the steam catapult is at the beginning of the track and the maximum force of the

emal is near the end of the track?

Does it also mean, that the maximum force of the steam catapult is higher than the maximum force of the emal, because it

has to keep up the energy till the end of the track?

If yes, how much bigger?

From this set of pictures:



A few picks of the orchard:

J-15 with 2 PL-8s on wingtips and 2 PL-12s on centreline:



J-15 where you can just barely make out that there are 4 500 kg bomb mockups (2 on wing stations, and 2 under each intake)


And finally, we see 3 J-15s on the flight deck, which is the most we've seen yet.



Looks like after a brief hiatus in the last few months, they are finally making some big strides to qualify the planes with representative weapon loads onboard for both take off and landing.

Its the same 3 planes as the last time 552, 553 and 554. Only this time they are launching and recovering planes with a (dummie) weapons load. Seeing the J-15 loaded with anti-ship and ground attack munitions put to rest the idea that the J-15 can only take off from the Liaoning with air to air weapons.

Franklin said:

Its the same 3 planes as the last time 552, 553 and 554. Only this time they are launching and recovering planes with a (dummie) weapons load. Seeing the J-15 loaded with anti-ship and ground attack munitions put to rest the idea that the J-15 can only take off from the Liaoning with air to air weapons.

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Exactly, and the fact that they are proceeding with their training and carrier quals tell us that these aircraft are indeed LRIP as I stated earlier, they are carrier based Flankers, and have been up-graded structurally and aerodynamically to fulfill the PLANs requirement for a carrier based F/A role. The fact that the weapons load is light is testament to the contention that their combat loadout will be limited off the ramp, at least until they have some air-to-air refueling capability, simple physics gentlemen.

As the J-15 production is ramped up, it may still look slow to many of us, and if the J-31 is indeed given the official blessing, it will very likely serve alongside the J-15, whether or not she operates off the Liaoning is another story altogether??? So all the aircraft produced will likely be brought up to full factory spec, and I expect 12-24 J-15 will eventually be the full complement on the Liaoning, and I also suspect that construction has begun on a STOBAR Carrier! don't doubt me! brat

bd popeye said:

In my opinion those weapons loaded are dummy/inert/practice rounds. However the important thing for the PLAN is that they weigh the same as the real deal. This way they can test the range of the Flying Shark with a weapons load.

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Before there's any argument I'd like to know what is the max weight take off laod for the J-15 from CV-16? What then would be the range of the aircraft? Thanks!

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Any answers to my query? C'mon gents.. I'd really like to know...And I know the PLAN is taking little steps at this time.

duncanidaho said:

Does it mean, that the maximum force of the steam catapult is at the beginning of the track and the maximum force of the

emal is near the end of the track?

Does it also mean, that the maximum force of the steam catapult is higher than the maximum force of the emal, because it

has to keep up the energy till the end of the track?

If yes, how much bigger?

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No, it just means that the catapult delivers a higher instantaneous force at the beginning that delivers a big shock. Over the length of the catapult, the net acceleration, which is the average amount of acceleration, should be the same. However, with a steam catapult you have a greater instantaneous acceleration at the beginning that tapers off, while for an EMALS the acceleration can be a constant. This means that at the beginning of a launch a steam catapult exerts greater instantaneous force, even if net force is the same as that for an EMALS. To prevent things from breaking or wearing out too quickly you need to design around the peak force the object will experience, and not the net force.

Someone must have an approximate aircraft characteristic of J-15, with deployed flaps as seen at take off and one can add the drag of the ordnance. With an approximate engine characteristic and assumed take off weights one can simulate the take off at several wind over deck speeds. Some thirty years ago I simulated the take off with and without engine failure of a civil transport twin I had made a preliminary design for to find the take off length while keeping to the airworthiness requirements. Here you will have to choose your own requirements as the Chinese ones are I presume unknown or substitute the USN requirements. The take off length is given by the positions of the jet deflectors and the requirement is basically that you do not fall into the sea in case one engine fails where? at the end of the ski ramp?
While you're at it you might add EM cats of several length and change the ski ramp profile if necessary.

I do not think that the photo's of J-15 with a light bomb or missile load prove that the aircraft cannot be launched with a heavy load. You necessarily begin with a light load and go to heavier loads as long as it is safe enough, always comparing simulation with experience.

bd popeye said:

Any answers to my query?

C'mon gents.. I'd really like to know...And I know the PLAN is taking little steps at this time.

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Well here are the pics that no_name posted a while back, but his translations are gone because you accidentally deleted the thread lol.


However, there is a page describing various loadouts of the Su-33 and time on station, etc, that it would allow... Whether one accepts it or not is another matter.

1: TOW 26 tons, fuel load 5.7 tons, weapons load, 4 R73 and 4 R77. Combat radii 660 km
2: TOW 27 tons, fuel load 6.3 tons, weapons load, 4 R73 and 2 R77 and 1 Kh-65E. Combat radii 710 km
3: TOW: 30.5 tons, fuel load 9.3 tons, weapons load, 4 R73 and 8 R77. Combat radii 1280 km
4: TOW 30.5 tons, fuel load 5.7 tons, weapons load, 22 x 250 kg bombs. Combat radii 700 km
5: TOW 31.9 tons, fuel load 9.3 tons, weapons load 4 R73 and 2 R77 and 4 Kh-31. Combat radius 1220 km.
6: TOW:31.4 tons, fuel load 9.3 tons, weapons load 4 R73 and 2 500kg class LGB and 1 1500kg class LGB. Combat radius 1250 km.

There will understandably be skepticism to these numbers, but these are the closest I can get for what J-15 may end up being able to perform under various loadouts.

OBviously the weapons are russian here, and J-15 will use chinese weapons, but you can easily switch out, say a Kh-65E for a couple of YJ-83Ks instead.

Obviously the pages also say that the J-15 can take off with MTOW or near MTOW at the ski jump.

Namely...
with 25 knots headwind Su-33 can take off from the 110m launch positions with 32 tons, MTOW, and with 0 headwind, launch is limited to 28.2 tons.
At the 195 launch position, Su-33 can take off with MTOW with 0 headwind.

Franklin said:

Its the same 3 planes as the last time 552, 553 and 554. Only this time they are launching and recovering planes with a (dummie) weapons load. Seeing the J-15 loaded with anti-ship and ground attack munitions put to rest the idea that the J-15 can only take off from the Liaoning with air to air weapons.

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I know that this will probably piss everyone off, but how do we know that those supposedly 'dummy missiles' weigh as much as the real ones, that is an assumption on someone's part. I'm going to have to change my name to 'Doubting Thomas', because I don't believe everything pictures seem to show me, even the ones that aren't photo shopped.

By the way, where are the J-15's that are supposedly painted in PLAN colors by now, supposedly there are quite a few by everything I read here, just not seeing them.

But, I guess time will tell