Blackstone
Brigadier
Thanks for the new photo, but what does it actually show?
PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
- Status
You beat me!
I think you've got it the wrong way around.
If DL builds an aircraft carrier immediately after 001A (CV-17), it would simply be designated CV-18, not CV19.
But I think it is important to take a step back and look at the most likely information.
We know DL is building 001A/CV-17, which is almost certainly going to be a carrier very similar in all respects to Liaoning, probably with minor modifications here and there. It will also be a conventionally powered aircraft carrier. 001A/CV-17 is also basically assumed to be the last ski jump aircraft carrier that the Navy will commission, as they will move to catapults for 002/CV-18 and likely not look back.
We strongly suspect/know that JN is going to build 002/CV-18, and that it will likely be a larger carrier than 001/001A, and that it will use catapults of some kind, but we do not know whether it will EM catapults or steam catapults. It is also strongly indicated if not virtually confirmed that 002/CV-18 will be a conventionally powered aircraft carrier -- we have heard nothing about CV-18 being a nuclear powered carrier, and there is no reason to think it will be.
Whether CV-18 uses EM cats or steam cats is the question, and another question is whether CV-18 will adopt conventional steam turbine/boiler propulsion (like 001, and probably 001A), or if they will adopt more advanced propulsion such as IEPS or a variation of IEPS, which would likely allow easier adoption of EM cats.
There is no reason to believe that EM cats are only going to be viable on nuclear carriers, and we also cannot yet guarantee that the Navy won't adopt steam cats instead of EM cats on their first CATOBAR carrier. Therefore, we have no grounds to suspect that 002/CV-18 will be a nuclear powered carrier and thus no reason to believe it will somehow be "delayed". Also, it also makes little sense to develop a nuclear powered CATOBAR carrier without first developing a conventionally powered CATOBAR carrier (which is exactly what we believe the Navy is doing) -- and in turn it would make no sense to give a higher/later designation (CV-19) to a carrier which will be produced and commissioned earlier, while a lower/earlier designation (CV-18) to a carrier that will be produced and commissioned later.
[There are of course precedents of pennant number jumping, such as the pennant numbers of 071 class LPDs going from 998 to 999 then down to 989 and 988... however that is likely due to the strange selection of the initial 9xx pennant number series which limited the available numbers they could choose from -- whereas for carriers, they began with CV-"16" and can quite comfortably go upwards from there without having to jump backwards and forwards.]
After JN's 002/CV-18, we do not know if the Navy will buy another 002 (possibly 002A) or if they will immediately transition to nuclear powered carriers... nor do we know if JN or DL will build the next carrier after 002 (aka "CV-19"). However, it is likely that "CV-19" will begin construction sometime in the early 2020s, at the latest.
So putting this in a chronological format:
001/CV-16 conventional STOBAR carrier Liaoning --> 001A/CV17 conventional domestic STOBAR carrier --> 002/CV-18 domestic CATOBAR conventional carrier (steam or EM cat) --> "CV-19" which would be either another 002 identical to CV-18, or a "002A" a substantially upgraded CV-18 (such as having newer propulsion IEPS and EM cats which would be more mature by then, if CV-18 adopted say steam turbine propulsion and steam cats), or potentially an "003" which would be a new nuclear powered carrier altogether.
antiterror13
Brigadier
I disagree, but time will tell. I don't believe there is a technology constraint for China to build nuclear reactor small enough for carrier. China has been doing it since 1974 or 42 years ago when the first 091 was commissioned ( I know I know there were a lot of problems back then)
What exactly do you disagree with? That the Navy will only begin construction of a nuclear powered carrier after at least a decade? Because I am not only talking about developing a sufficiently small and powerful nuclear reactor, but the integration of that technology into a large ship that will likely displace around 100,000 tons and feature cutting edge support systems, internal electronics and other auxiliary subsystems.
The Chinese Navy of the modern age is not going to leap into an expensive and technologically complex undertaking like a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, without having all the important subsystems of the ship itself reach a sufficient stage of relative maturity. Given what we know about the likely construction and commissioning cycles of 001A, 002, and their respective cycles, as well as accounting for whether 002 will be produced in only a single ship or two ships, I think beginning construction of a nuclear powered carrier in a decade or so's time is realistic, if not a little bit optimistic.
Quite frankly I cannot imagine the Navy being audacious enough to demand a nuclear carrier begin construction significantly prior to such a potential time, unless they are willing to adopt a higher degree of risk or make a significantly higher amount of investment into carrier aviation than what they were already presently willing to spend.
My personal suspected timeline for future carrier construction:
-CV-17/001A launched next year from DL, but DL will still be busy with fitting out 001A and supporting sea trials and refits for the next few years so it likely will not be able to seriously construct a new carrier until late this decade
-CV-18/002 begins construction at JN within 2 years, launched around 2020. Same for DL above, it will likely have its resources initially stretched to support sea trials and refits of CV-18, and will only be able to construct another carrier two or so years after CV-18 is launched.
-"CV-19"/002 no. 2 begins construction at DL around 2020, launched around 2023. Construction can begin around 2020 due to the experience gained from building and trialling 001A by DL, but also that they can focus resources back on constructing a carrier rather than having to also conduct sea trials and refits of a new carrier (001A).
-"CVN-20"/003 begins construction, at JN, around 2025. I expect JN will continue to be occupied with supporting sea trials of CV-18 until 2022, assuming CV-18 is launched at 2020 (which may well be an early estimate), and there is also likely going to be an additional need to upskill and make modifications to the shipyard to accommodate construction of a nuclear powered vessel which will also be much more complex and larger than any warship that any shipyard in China has ever previously built. And this is assuming all smooth sailing with the above projects and relatively smooth development of important subsystems, and no major economic challenges which may result in a delay of any of the above precursor projects.
北航某部四名飞行员完成夜间着舰训练放单飞
Northern (Naval Aviation) Unit four pilots (helicopter) completed night ship landing training and permitting solo flights (They only started carrier based helicopter night ship landings)
Auto Translation:
2016-03-27 16:03 aviation news of China By Hu Baoliang, Zhang Yinjie
Summary: in order to shorten the period of pilot training, the training arrangements 4 pilot carrier landing training in the intensive flight training in order to increase the training hard to improve pilot skills.
China National Aero-news network: the night of March 20, northern fleet air arm helicopter forces in theatre 4 first successfully completed the night carrier training pilots and fly alone, they possessed the capacity and naval ships coordinated operation.
In recent days, according to the Department of the "able to fight, win" standard, high holding combat readiness training, pilot carrier training capability as an important platform for accelerating forces fighting mode, in the practical training to improve the pilot's technical and tactical level, rising force win the core competencies.
At 18 o'clock of the evening, flight commander two eight ship-borne helicopters flying to the Yellow Sea waters. 10 minutes later, the helicopter arrived at the area where the naval activity, and carrier landing training.
18:20, as it was getting dark, the cross-training day and night carrier landing training into the night.
Night carrier is the carrier-borne pilots more difficult subjects. Night carrier landing training, pilots ' attention allocation is slower than the day, easy to produce vision errors. Pilots must take into account the instrument instructions and Visual judgment, to cooperate closely with the commanders and ships, scientific allocation of attention to ensure ship safety.
In order to shorten the period of pilot training, the training arrangements 4 pilot carrier landing training in the intensive flight training in order to increase the training hard to improve pilot skills. It is understood that the intensive flight training because of the long flight, the pilots body fatigue, attention likely to be focused on these negative? BA NA Lapis supporting his Fontanelle Yuan Mu XING apologized haze trance starlings miscellaneous brag lip Connaught シ silly Sam collapsed this way gilt cast and Huan Jian? br/>
Challenge progress. 19:16, reporters at the scene saw the pilot Li Yannan driven helicopter with a height of 12 meters into the flight deck, with a beautiful three-point landing, safely landed on the flight deck logo from the center circle. Subsequent training precise each time.
21:10, as the last successfully carried out a helicopter landing, 4 pilots after flight instructors Ni Pengyuan, Peng Da double assessment, has completed the scheduled landing training program, trainees percent pass rate and smooth flying.
2016-03-27 16:03 中国航空新闻网 胡宝良 张印杰
核心提示： 为了缩短飞行员培训周期，此次训练，部队安排4名飞行员在大强度飞行训练中进行着舰训练，以加大训练难度提高飞行员技术水平。
中国航空新闻网讯：3月20日夜晚，北部战区海军航空兵某舰载直升机部队4名飞行员首次成功完成夜间着舰训练并放单飞，标志着他们初步具备了与舰艇协同作战能力。
连日来，该部按照“能打仗、打胜仗”的标准，大抓战备训练，把培养飞行员着舰能力作为加快部队战斗力生成模式的重要平台，在贴近实战训练中提高飞行员的技战术水平，不断提升部队打胜仗核心能力。
这天晚上18点，飞行指挥员指挥两架直八舰载直升机飞向黄海某海域。10分钟后，舰载直升机抵达舰艇活动所在海区，并迅速展开着舰训练。
18时20分，随着天色逐渐变暗，此次进行的跨昼夜着舰训练进入夜间训练状态。
夜间着舰是舰载机飞行员难度较高的科目。夜间着舰训练，飞行员注意力分配比白天慢，容易产生视觉误差。飞行员必须兼顾仪表指示和目力判断，与指挥员和舰艇进行密切配合，科学分配注意力，才能保证着舰安全。
为了缩短飞行员培训周期，此次训练，部队安排4名飞行员在大强度飞行训练中进行着舰训练，以加大训练难度提高飞行员技术水平。据了解，大强度飞行训练由于长时间飞行，飞行员身体容易疲劳，注意力容易不集中，这些不利因素对飞行员的生理和心理是个不小的考验，而对于即将放单飞的飞行员来说更是一个挑战。
有挑战就有进步。19点16分，记者在现场看到，飞行员李延楠驾驶的舰载直升机以12米高度进入飞行甲板，以一个漂亮的三点着陆，稳稳地降落在飞行甲板中心的标志圈内。随后的训练一次比一次精准。
21点10分，随着最后一架次舰载直升机成功着舰，4名飞行员经过飞行教员倪鹏远、彭大双考核，先后完成预定着舰训练计划，参训合格率百分之百并顺利放单飞。
Northern (Naval Aviation) Unit four pilots (helicopter) completed night ship landing training and permitting solo flights (They only started carrier based helicopter night ship landings)
Auto Translation:
2016-03-27 16:03 aviation news of China By Hu Baoliang, Zhang Yinjie
Summary: in order to shorten the period of pilot training, the training arrangements 4 pilot carrier landing training in the intensive flight training in order to increase the training hard to improve pilot skills.
China National Aero-news network: the night of March 20, northern fleet air arm helicopter forces in theatre 4 first successfully completed the night carrier training pilots and fly alone, they possessed the capacity and naval ships coordinated operation.
In recent days, according to the Department of the "able to fight, win" standard, high holding combat readiness training, pilot carrier training capability as an important platform for accelerating forces fighting mode, in the practical training to improve the pilot's technical and tactical level, rising force win the core competencies.
At 18 o'clock of the evening, flight commander two eight ship-borne helicopters flying to the Yellow Sea waters. 10 minutes later, the helicopter arrived at the area where the naval activity, and carrier landing training.
18:20, as it was getting dark, the cross-training day and night carrier landing training into the night.
Night carrier is the carrier-borne pilots more difficult subjects. Night carrier landing training, pilots ' attention allocation is slower than the day, easy to produce vision errors. Pilots must take into account the instrument instructions and Visual judgment, to cooperate closely with the commanders and ships, scientific allocation of attention to ensure ship safety.
In order to shorten the period of pilot training, the training arrangements 4 pilot carrier landing training in the intensive flight training in order to increase the training hard to improve pilot skills. It is understood that the intensive flight training because of the long flight, the pilots body fatigue, attention likely to be focused on these negative? BA NA Lapis supporting his Fontanelle Yuan Mu XING apologized haze trance starlings miscellaneous brag lip Connaught シ silly Sam collapsed this way gilt cast and Huan Jian? br/>
Challenge progress. 19:16, reporters at the scene saw the pilot Li Yannan driven helicopter with a height of 12 meters into the flight deck, with a beautiful three-point landing, safely landed on the flight deck logo from the center circle. Subsequent training precise each time.
21:10, as the last successfully carried out a helicopter landing, 4 pilots after flight instructors Ni Pengyuan, Peng Da double assessment, has completed the scheduled landing training program, trainees percent pass rate and smooth flying.
2016-03-27 16:03 中国航空新闻网 胡宝良 张印杰
核心提示： 为了缩短飞行员培训周期，此次训练，部队安排4名飞行员在大强度飞行训练中进行着舰训练，以加大训练难度提高飞行员技术水平。
中国航空新闻网讯：3月20日夜晚，北部战区海军航空兵某舰载直升机部队4名飞行员首次成功完成夜间着舰训练并放单飞，标志着他们初步具备了与舰艇协同作战能力。
连日来，该部按照“能打仗、打胜仗”的标准，大抓战备训练，把培养飞行员着舰能力作为加快部队战斗力生成模式的重要平台，在贴近实战训练中提高飞行员的技战术水平，不断提升部队打胜仗核心能力。
这天晚上18点，飞行指挥员指挥两架直八舰载直升机飞向黄海某海域。10分钟后，舰载直升机抵达舰艇活动所在海区，并迅速展开着舰训练。
18时20分，随着天色逐渐变暗，此次进行的跨昼夜着舰训练进入夜间训练状态。
夜间着舰是舰载机飞行员难度较高的科目。夜间着舰训练，飞行员注意力分配比白天慢，容易产生视觉误差。飞行员必须兼顾仪表指示和目力判断，与指挥员和舰艇进行密切配合，科学分配注意力，才能保证着舰安全。
为了缩短飞行员培训周期，此次训练，部队安排4名飞行员在大强度飞行训练中进行着舰训练，以加大训练难度提高飞行员技术水平。据了解，大强度飞行训练由于长时间飞行，飞行员身体容易疲劳，注意力容易不集中，这些不利因素对飞行员的生理和心理是个不小的考验，而对于即将放单飞的飞行员来说更是一个挑战。
有挑战就有进步。19点16分，记者在现场看到，飞行员李延楠驾驶的舰载直升机以12米高度进入飞行甲板，以一个漂亮的三点着陆，稳稳地降落在飞行甲板中心的标志圈内。随后的训练一次比一次精准。
21点10分，随着最后一架次舰载直升机成功着舰，4名飞行员经过飞行教员倪鹏远、彭大双考核，先后完成预定着舰训练计划，参训合格率百分之百并顺利放单飞。
Intrepid
Major
The deck they are landing is not a carrier flightdeck.
Ultra
Junior Member
Nuclear reactor for the submarine is quite different to nuclear reactor for an aircraft carrier.
Its one thing to build a nuclear attack or ballistic submarine, but completely another thing to build a nuclear aircraft carrier.
The safety measures and various subsystems that goes into it in order to protect it from disaster is far more complex than a submarine - for a nuclear submarine to go horribly wrong you lost 150 people, but for a nuclear super aircraft carrier to go horribly wrong that will be 5000 dead people, plus all the investments that goes into building a huge aircraft carrier, ALL the aircrafts and helicopters that are onboard, all the weapons, stores and ammos, not to mention the cost of training 5000+ personnels to operate an aircraft carrier. It is just far too costly if something goes wrong, so that's why most of the country that dares to invest in a nuclear aircraft carrier takes decades in design and testing it.
That's why for all the countries that has developed the nuclear submarines, ONLY TWO COUNTRIES actually dares to put into production nuclear aircraft carriers - the french and the american. Not even the british and the russian try it - the latest Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier is conventional, and there are no country that are planning for nuclear aircraft carrier in the foreseeable future.
It will take SEVERAL DECADES before China will embark on nuclear aircraft carrier, that is if they go the completely indigenous route. They get it sooner if they can get the french onboard to help them, but it is highly unlikely.
Also, let's not forget, why would China want a nuclear powered aircraft carrier? Are they planning to be the new global police? A nuclear powered aircraft carrier goes against the current (and even the near future) chinese strategy. China is only seeking to consolidate its near shore defence - maybe along the second island chain, and the aircraft carriers they planning to build are only going to run around these areas most of the time. The PLAN aren't going to send their precious aircraft carriers too far from their shore, at least not until they have enough number of them. So a steam-powered gas turbined aircraft carrier is more than enough to fit the PLAN strategy for the foreseeable future.
Last edited:
- Status