MwRYum
Major
If anyone remember, that the recent construction at the flight training facility, which resembles catapults? If and when they decide on EM or steam cat, the first thing we can expect is that there'll be buzz on the activities there.
PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Yes, the land based training facility I think is where the competition will be held -- by78's post 5551 on the last page shows us the most up to date satellite pic of the construction there...
It is nice because we can actually see the clear differences between the configuration of the two supposed catapults. Vincent a few days ago posted a picture comparing the different configurations of the suspected catapults. It's attached below -- note, I'm not sure if the three pictures of the three different sites are "scaled" correctly at the same height.
It is thought that the "longer/thinner" catapult may be the steam catapult (the most left picture below suggesting construction of a similar configuration steam cat demonstrator began in 2008 at a site supposedly in Shanghai), and that the "shorter/wider" catapult may be the EM catapult (the most right picture below suggesting construction of the similar configuration EM cat demonstrator began in 2011 supposedly in Wuhan)... with the middle picture at the land based naval aviation training facility at Xing Cheng/Huangdicun with photos from late 2015, showing the configurations of both the "longer/thinner" suspected steam catapult, alongside the "shorter/wider" suspected EM catapult.
At this stage I think it is enough to confirm that the two suspected catapults are definitely different in some way, however we do not have enough evidence to strongly claim that one is steam and one is EM.
It will also be difficult for us to confirm that either one is even a catapult, for at least many months, possibly a year or more, even after construction of the suspected catapult or catapults is finished, because we will have to rely only on satellite imagery which may take months or years to update to show us some J-15s or other aircraft around the suspected catapult site at Huangdicun to strongly suggest that the catapults are actually catapults.
In other words, even if those two structures at Huangdicun are catapults, it may be a few years until we get picture confirmation that they are. Furthermore, it will likely be even more years until we get definitive picture or video confirmation that they are testing two different types of catapults (such as steam vs EM as has been rumoured recently) -- that will likely require videos or pictures of the catapults launching the aircraft for the full sequence, and if the catapult does not expel any steam then it will strongly suggest it would be EM rather than steam.
Of course, the Chinese Navy might feel generous, throw us a bone, and confirm it officially, which would be great.
The coordinates of the site is here: 40.500000 N, 120.657222 E
One can use google earth to measure the distance.
The longer/thinner (suspected steam cat) is about 140m long, the shorter/wider (suspected EM cat) is about 132m long. (Note, in this case we are only measuring the "trench" -- that will almost certainly be the catapult itself, whereas the rest of the line on the surface extending from both catapult trenches may be a method of catching test sleds during initial launches)
The Nimitz class CVNs have steam cats which are 99m long, whereas the Ford class will have EMALS which I've read is 300 feet long (so about 91m long).
Given that information, I think it is quite plausible that the structures we're seeing at Huangdicun are catapults -- but whether they are built to the intended size for installation on carriers or not is another matter. It is definitely possible that they deliberately built oversized demonstrators for the competition to trial for actual flying aircraft for their first aircraft launches and to use the tests to determine a smaller scale production version for actual ships. [Note: I'm not suggesting that they wouldn't be able to competently engineer prototype catapults that are scaled correctly for a ship with the right amount of power to launch intended aircraft, rather I'm suggesting they could have sought to build deliberately oversized ones for the sake of testing the fundamentals of the system while also removing any risk of their demonstrators not being powerful enough]
OTOH, it may be possible that the large lengths we see are actually intended for the carriers themselves. It could mean that the catapults may be less efficient (in terms of "MTOW to length ratio") than equivalently sized USN catapults... but it could be just as likely that the "MTOW to length ratio" is similar or comparable to USN catapults and the greater length could also be due to the Chinese Navy intending for their catapults to be capable of launching heavier aircraft than what the USN requires.
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danielchin
Junior Member
SinoSoldier
Colonel
About time that happened.
To admit, I'm still sceptical. Remember the images with similar brown flat areas, which were later identified as psed areas to hide something.
I wont deny that it is time to see this next step, but IMO this area looks too clean and colour-wise too even !
Deino
I wont deny that it is time to see this next step, but IMO this area looks too clean and colour-wise too even !
Deino
The Chinese made it pretty clear, at least to me, in their announcements, that 001A wuld be another Liaoning type carrier. To me this means:
1. The same hull form.
2 STOBAR, with the ski jump bow
3. Very similar flight deck layout.
4. Similar island, but with improvements per the mock-up at Wuhan.
5. Potentially improved hangar layout.
6. Potentially improved logistics internally.
Anyhow, that is what I am expecting.
1. The same hull form.
2 STOBAR, with the ski jump bow
3. Very similar flight deck layout.
4. Similar island, but with improvements per the mock-up at Wuhan.
5. Potentially improved hangar layout.
6. Potentially improved logistics internally.
Anyhow, that is what I am expecting.
Blackstone
Brigadier
What does that mean? Larger in dimensions? Displacements? Both?
Has a waist catapult been definitively ruled out on CV001A?
Intrepid
Major
I expect a waist catapult on Liaoning or CV001A later. But I never saw pictures or drawings about that. The successor to the Varyag would get the combination of ski jump and catapults.
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