PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
- Status
Very, very unlikely. The hanger will stay the same width and height throughout. Once the hull narrows to a point that makes it too narrow to put the hanger there...the hanger itself would have ended.
Now, they do need shop areas near the hangers for testing and maintenance. Those might be placed in narrower areas, but the hanger itself is very unlikely to get narrower.
I think wolf's point about the original module being a demonstration for an LHA hanger might be closer to what happened.
Intrepid
Major
A LHD with an angled deck?
You should no longer think of the module. There are only a couple of metal plates that were welded together into something that brings to mind an aircraft carrier. You should not interpret so much into it.
Seriously? I have to tell you intrepid, that the module was a LOT more than a "couple of plates welded together."
And that module I am showing does not necessarily show an angled deck at all.
Intrepid
Major
No pipes, vents, cables, ducts and all the other details. I think, they spent 5% of the time you would normaly spent building such a module. The module misses decks and a separated double or tripple bottom and a side protection system as well. It has an overhang with a catapult track never seen on a carrier without an angled deck.
It is a nice hint that China is thinking about building carriers. Not more.
It is unlikely that it is for an LHD. As I wrote in a few previous posts...
"It was very obvious from the beginning that JN's demo module was not full sized, and its configuration and overall design makes no more sense if it were for a LHA compared to if it were for a carrier, apart from the slight possible trench in the flight deck which may indicate the intended simulation for the presence of a catapult. More importantly, we have no rumours of JN intending to construct any LHA or LHD, but all rumours still point to it constructing 002. When we take all the noise together along with what we see, I think we get a good sense of what may be actually happening."
And:
"I had briefly considered the possibility of the demo module being for an LHA/LHD, but in addition to the other reasons I listed in my previous post, it also didn't make sense that the hangar was so low, as it would barely be able to accomodate a Z-9 or Z-20 height helicopter, let alone a Kamov or a Z-8."
... my position on the Jiangnan demo module, is like so "I believe that the JN demo module was entirely meant to be a smaller sized module that is deliberately not meant to imitate a full scale carrier module, but rather demonstrate possibly production techniques in the form of a sub-scale example. In other words, I believe they were not showcasing the design of a true carrier module, but rather an "abridged" design intended to showcase certain features on a smaller scale, while also demonstrating their ability to produce a module of a certain simulated small scale."
That is why I think it's very important that we recognize the Jiangnan module (which first appeared almost two years ago now, I think), is not meant to be any real sized module for an actual ship, but rather a sub scale module demonstrator (or a demo module).
... and plawolf has since agreed with me on many if not all of those points, I believe, in post 4823.
I think we are talking past each other.
As I said, I know that the demo module is not for an actual ship.
However, it was created as a demo for some purpose.
I think it is clear that the purpose was not to demonstrate an aircraft carrier hanger bay per sey.
When I say it might be for an LHD, the meaning is that the demo was created to show a capability towards a potential LHD specification.
Maybe it is...maybe it isn't. But I am relatively sure that they built that demo towards towards something specific. A particularly requirement or specification.
That is all.
Yes... and I said it is almost definitely to demonstrate construction methods in a subscale carrier module.
Technically speaking, it could be for an LHA or LHD, but based on the physical evidence of what the module looks like, as well as what we know about Chinese naval LHA/LHD plans and the persistent rumours of 002 being built at JN, I think the likelihood of it being for an LHA/LHD is so small that we can practically write it off as nonexistent for the purposes of discussion.
Well, they key to that last statement from my perspective is that it is what "you" think, Bltizo.
And that is fine, you have made that clear. So, I will completely understand if you do not discuss it.
But, some of the rest of us, who may not quite ready to, "write it off as nonexistent for the purposes of discussion," if we continue to do so.
In that case I'd be happy to discuss why you believe that there is a meaningful chance that it could be indicative for an LHA or LHD. It is already quite obvious that the module itself is too small to be for a carrier just as it is too small for an LHA or LHD, meaning if it has to be a subscale demo module of some kind for either a carrier or an LHA or LHD... but then one has to explain the rather distinctive trench in the upper surface/flight deck of the demo module which would only make sense on a carrier. Then of course there is the "Chinese BBS discussion" factor, where we often (if not always) get early warning for projecting the construction of major naval ships including the shipyard they would be built at -- and of course there has never been any rumours of Jiangnan building the Navy's LHA/LHD project, whereas there has been persistent rumours of Jiangnan building the Navy's first CATOBAR carrier.
And I think that is the crux of it. I think some of the fundamental differences in our opinion are due to the fact that you (and some other members) do not consider many of the credible persistent rumours from Chinese BBS into significant consideration when trying to predict and project certain Chinese military developments such as their shipbuilding, whereas I (and some other members) do.
I can appreciate that technically speaking we have to consider those possibilities, and that some individuals are still not totally comfortable with relying on the word of individuals they are not familiar with, written in another language that they cannot read and dissect for themselves.
But I have to admit it also feels like a needless formality sometimes, when those more unlikely scenarios have to be acknowledged as if they are credible, with the full sum of information and logic at our disposal, given the track record of many of those same rumours once they have been properly investigated and considered and filtered through the sieve of credibility.
- Status