PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

I believe the shoe is on the other foot I see a lot of people in this forum that has no knowledge a whatsoever blurted their implied condescending comment on the Chinese military development with no basis at all. Other then their own sense of superiority and part ignorance. It is very annoying for many of us in this forum. So if you don't know keep quiet and wait until further development. If you want to debate state your argument for everybody to read

I don't see what's wrong with other members showing scepticism over whether a shipping block is aircraft carrier or some other kind of ship. There is no reason they need to believe it just because a "big shrimp" or a "birdie" in Chinese bbs said so. Having health debate is a bedrock of this forum as long as members are being respectful to each other and not intentionally trying to agonize others. In this case, nobody doubted that China is building an aircraft carrier right now or has the ability to do so, but rather simply questioned whether the module in question is for that purpose. So please be respectful to other members.

tphuang said:

I don't see what's wrong with other members showing scepticism over whether a shipping block is aircraft carrier or some other kind of ship. There is no reason they need to believe it just because a "big shrimp" or a "birdie" in Chinese bbs said so. Having health debate is a bedrock of this forum as long as members are being respectful to each other and not intentionally trying to agonize others. In this case, nobody doubted that China is building an aircraft carrier right now or has the ability to do so, but rather simply questioned whether the module in question is for that purpose. So please be respectful to other members.

Click to expand...

If you're referring to antiterror's post, the way I understand it, he made it in response to Verum's post which was about the aircraft carrier hull under construction in general, rather than the specific module block being shipped to the shipyard.

As for carrier construction -- I think there still are a few individuals who may be holding out the belief that the ship might not be a carrier (though that is probably due to the bet).
What's more irritating is the fact that there is no commonly accepted guidelines of PLA watching and the fact that credible rumours are often ignored by many members and are not included in their assessments of new sights of potential developments... when in reality, those rumours are the essential early warning we get to keep an eye out and try to identify what those exact new developments are.
It was obvious months ago that this new ship was going to be the long-rumoured carrier, but people still suggested it "could" be an LHA or LHD, without considering the fact that no credible rumours of LHA or LHD construction at DL existed.

Bltizo said:

If you're referring to antiterror's post, the way I understand it, he made it in response to Verum's post which was about the aircraft carrier hull under construction in general, rather than the specific module block being shipped to the shipyard.

As for carrier construction -- I think there still are a few individuals who may be holding out the belief that the ship might not be a carrier (though that is probably due to the bet).
What's more irritating is the fact that there is no commonly accepted guidelines of PLA watching and the fact that credible rumours are often ignored by many members and are not included in their assessments of new sights of potential developments... when in reality, those rumours are the essential early warning we get to keep an eye out and try to identify what those exact new developments are.
It was obvious months ago that this new ship was going to be the long-rumoured carrier, but people still suggested it "could" be an LHA or LHD, without considering the fact that no credible rumours of LHA or LHD construction at DL existed.

Click to expand...

Given the length and beam being considerably larger than the USA America it is unlikely that the ship is a Lha or lhd

Bltizo said:

If you're referring to antiterror's post, the way I understand it, he made it in response to Verum's post which was about the aircraft carrier hull under construction in general, rather than the specific module block being shipped to the shipyard.

As for carrier construction -- I think there still are a few individuals who may be holding out the belief that the ship might not be a carrier (though that is probably due to the bet).
What's more irritating is the fact that there is no commonly accepted guidelines of PLA watching and the fact that credible rumours are often ignored by many members and are not included in their assessments of new sights of potential developments... when in reality, those rumours are the essential early warning we get to keep an eye out and try to identify what those exact new developments are.
It was obvious months ago that this new ship was going to be the long-rumoured carrier, but people still suggested it "could" be an LHA or LHD, without considering the fact that no credible rumours of LHA or LHD construction at DL existed.

Click to expand...

I am not referring to antiterror's post.

What one believes to be credible rumours could be entirely different than someone else. And there have definitely been times where these credible rumours from Chinese bbs have not turned out to be true, so we do allow discussions even if source is credible. Also disagreement does not prevent further discussion on a topic or advancement of discussion on that topic.

This is for everyone. Please be respectful of others when you do choose to post. There are situations where certain members go out of their way to antagonize and you may choose to issue complaints for those times if moderators don't handle the matter in a timely fashion. Moderators will handle the situation to the best of our judgement.

tphuang said:

I am not referring to antiterror's post.

Click to expand...

In that case, what exactly are you referring to, when you said "I don't see what's wrong with other members showing scepticism over whether a shipping block is aircraft carrier or some other kind of ship."?
Which other members showed skepticism over whether a shipping block is a carrier or some other kind of ship?

What one believes to be credible rumours could be entirely different than someone else. And there have definitely been times where these credible rumours from Chinese bbs have not turned out to be true, so we do allow discussions even if source is credible. Also disagreement does not prevent further discussion on a topic or advancement of discussion on that topic.

Click to expand...

Individuals obviously have a right to disagree with other's positions, such as about the nature of rumours in PLA watching or what not... but others I think also have the right to call them out and use logical discussions and arguments, within the scope of the forum's rules.

This is my last post on this subject. My posts was primarily directed toward hendriks, which I thought would've been obvious since it's right below his post. I'm not sure why there is such obsession on your part to know who I was referring to. It's my judgement as a forum moderator to issue such an appeal to members of this forum. My goal is to keep maintaining civility and quality of discussion in this forum rather than picking side. It's shocking, but I do not enjoy spending 20 minutes on a work night to compose posts such as this.

tphuang said:

This is my last post on this subject. My posts was primarily directed toward hendriks, which I thought would've been obvious since it's right below his post. I'm not sure why there is such obsession on your part to know who I was referring to. It's my judgement as a forum moderator to issue such an appeal to members of this forum. My goal is to keep maintaining civility and quality of discussion in this forum rather than picking side. It's shocking, but I do not enjoy spending 20 minutes on a work night to compose posts such as this.

Click to expand...

I don't see anything wrong with my post I lost count of how many times the nay sayer have proven to be wrong I follow this thread for along time First they say China can't possibly make Liaoning a working vessel because she doesn't have the know how or advance engineering design. Wrong. Then they say She can't make the arresting cable working because no knowhow and China has no intelligence to built the arresting cable . But once it was shown that they are capable of building it by themselves, they say it must be From Sweden. Then there is theory of multiple accident because the US navy experience many accidents during their learning curve. Nope no such accident so far. The latest one is China could not possible built carrier because She never built it Duh She has revived a derelict ship and make it come alive That is more difficult than building it from the scratch!

Now it is you who is taking side and not me I don't know what your motivation is. My post is there are too many self proclaim "expert" here

my apologies if my post creating a long debate ..... it was a joke, nothing else and I don't disrespect anybody in this forum. My apologies to Verum if he gets offended, it wasn't my intention ... again, it's simply a joke

Hendrik_2000 said:

I believe the shoe is on the other foot I see a lot of people in this forum that has no knowledge a whatsoever blurted their implied condescending comment on the Chinese military development with no basis at all.

Click to expand...

Hendrik, how can you say who has knowledge and who does not? Just because they may not be up to your standard, does not make them ignorant.

If someone is skeptical, that does not mean they are condescending. That is a judgment call on your part.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Other then their own sense of superiority and part ignorance.

Click to expand...

More judgement calls and completely subjective in nature. None of us know another's heart.

It is true we can make judgements about people based on experience with them...but generally we should be careful in making judgments to the point of name calling (ie. ignorant, superiority, condescending, etc.)

Hendrik_2000 said:

So if you don't know keep quiet and wait until further development.

Click to expand...

Hendrik, it is not your position in this forum to tell people to "keep quiet."

You can suggest it...but when you start telling people to do so...you are crossing a line and you had better have a very good documented reason or it is you who will receive the warning.

Hendrik_2000 said:

If you want to debate state your argument for everybody to read

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that...we encourage it, as long as everyone is respectful and not judgmental.

But that still does not mean someone should not make a comment or observation.

If you see people who you personally feel are of question...you are free to either simply ignore them, or place them on your own ignore list.

But if you feel they are overboard, and either posting against the rules or antagonizing others intentionally, you should inform a moderator and have them deal with it.