http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/china-flanker-thread-ii-228-3720.html#post236666
A full squadron shall be ready and deliever to operational forces by year end.
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PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
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http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/china-flanker-thread-ii-228-3720.html#post236666
A full squadron shall be ready and deliever to operational forces by year end.
Shall be? As in there is documented statements by officials to this end? Or should be?
Lion, I see four aircraft on a production line. And that is not a new picture. I saw that picture starting in June or before.
Going back in the Flanker II thread until before March, there are no new pictures of any groupings of more than two J-15 aircraft, and most of those pictures are the same proto type aircraft we have seen for a couple of years. One PLAN painted aircraft was shown flying by in March or April, another (possibly the same aircraft) shown by itself in an airfield, and then the one that showed up on deck if the Liaoning. They may be the same, we just do not know.
I am actually really looking forward to the day we see the first J-15 squadron to stand up..
But to date, we have not seen anything like that. I have seen no official announcement by the PLAN or PRC of any schedule or plans to stand up a full squadron by the end of year. Can you point me to any such announcement? A link?
What people speculate on a forum thread is one thing...and can be indicative of what may happen...but nothing official indicates that this will be the case, and it is now the middle of August 2013. I personally do not believe a full squadron will be delivered by the end of the year because we have not seen that many, painted in PLAN colors, and delivered to the tarmac yet...and I have been watching, searching, and waiting like the rest of us.
If I am wrong, please post the pictures here (and not the same pictures we have seen for a couple of years), or link me to the new pictures. I follow the Flanker thread, the J-10 thread, the J-20 thread, the JH-7A thread, etc. and have not seen those new pictures of anything approaching a J-15 squadron yet.
Again, I am actually really looking forward to the day we do.
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Great picture the height of Soviet carrier building!
Engineer
Major
Actually, China can but doesn't, as putting J-15 into serial production is a pointless exercise at this moment. There aren't enough qualified pilots around to put those birds into use, and the crew of Liaoning isn't ready to handle a full compliment of aircraft at this point in time.
Nothing you have said here dispute what I have said. Not only that, but the PLAN is moving on further in trainings with each new voyage. With the latest Liaoning voyage, we shall see night training as well as take off with ordinances.
As you have said, they are not the same. Furthermore, PLAN has already moved pass that point of being stuck with ground-base trainings. So, I do not see your point of bringing those ground-based trainings into the discussion
Yes, it makes no sense as it is a fallacy, but that is what I have read.
No. Bringing 16 or 24 aircraft out to the sea is not going to quicken the pace of training at this point in time. They cannot all go on the Liaoning as the ship's crew do not have enough experience to handle that many aircraft at once. The commanders and the air traffic controllers on the Liaoning will also need time before being able to handle that many aircraft in the sky.
Keep in mind that PLAN has six pilots qualified for carrier landings with only three aircraft, and there are more pilots in the pipeline for qualification. There is no need to maintain a one-to-one ratio between aircraft and pilot. What this means is that when the J-15 is finally put into serial production, there will be qualified pilots that can put the aircraft into good use immediately.
China has always put the human element first before hardware. Putting a lot of aircraft on board for the sake of having a full air wing is pointless right now and China does not engage in such exercise.
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Shall be? As in there is documented statements by officials to this end? Or should be?
Lion, I see four aircraft on a production line. And that is not a new picture. I saw that picture starting in June or before.
Going back in the Flanker II thread until before March, there are no new pictures of any groupings of more than two J-15 aircraft, and most of those pictures are the same proto type aircraft we have seen for a couple of years. One PLAN painted aircraft was shown flying by in March or April, another (possibly the same aircraft) shown by itself in an airfield, and then the one that showed up on deck if the Liaoning. They may be the same, we just do not know.
I am actually really looking forward to the day we see the first J-15 squadron to stand up..
But to date, we have not seen anything like that. I have seen no official announcement by the PLAN or PRC of any schedule or plans to stand up a full squadron by the end of year. Can you point me to any such announcement? A link?
What people speculate on a forum thread is one thing...and can be indicative of what may happen...but nothing official indicates that this will be the case, and it is now the middle of August 2013. I personally do not believe a full squadron will be delivered by the end of the year because we have not seen that many, painted in PLAN colors, and delivered to the tarmac yet...and I have been watching, searching, and waiting like the rest of us.
If I am wrong, please post the pictures here (and not the same pictures we have seen for a couple of years), or link me to the new pictures. I follow the Flanker thread, the J-10 thread, the J-20 thread, the JH-7A thread, etc. and have not seen those new pictures of anything approaching a J-15 squadron yet.
Again, I am actually really looking forward to the day we do.
Right, and if you observe the above photo, this is what LRIP looks like in slo-mo, the floor is clean, there isn't much going on, most automotive and aircraft assembly lines run nose to tail, once an assembly is bolted on, that aircraft is moved up to the next position, and all of the assembly processes run concurrently on the assembly "LINE", and production lines have lots of stuff on the floor and things and people, moving about, this photo is way to sterile. brat
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Good rebuttal. Putting 24 plane on the carrier with only 6 carrier qualified pilot is like putting a cart in front of a horse .The question is how many carrier qualified pilot does India has? None as far as I know
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There are three ways to organize aircraft production.
Making individual aircraft - prototype construction for example.
Serial construction - when you produce hundreds or thousands of aircraft per year Think of the Willow Run plant that during a few years during WWII produced half the B-24's, one every 56 minute.But that was run by a car producer, Ford. These aircraft were then flown South to modify them to the needs of combat then occurring. For the F-104G's sold to European countries more than half a century ago production lines were set up in Italy, The Netherlands and two in Germany, each producing about a hundred per year. American military aircraft are often built on production lines because the numbers are large. For aircraft that are not yet ready for line production a simplified form of batch production is used called LRIP.
Chinese military aircraft are produced in much smaller numbers and it is known that J-10 as well as J-11 are produced in batches. It then makes sense to have the one Flanker production plant produce a batch of J-15's between batches of J-11B's. The batches are likely of the same size and need the same production time. This would avoid much of the improvisation that is inherent in LRIP. And perhaps, if necessary, and when the engine production is sufficient, they can have two batch production facilities. One that can only produce J-11's and one that can switch between J-11, J-15 and J-16. They will do whatever is necessary of course. But they will not set up a production line.
The tooling and the jigs used to make the folding wing, short tail, carrier stressed j-15 is probably substantially different for those used to make the fixed wing j-11. So I doubt j-15 and j-11 would be built on the same production line. If they are built on separate production lines, then it make no sense to intersperse j-15 production between batches of j-11.
Those are only some components though. It's entirely possible to simply outsource the specific components that are different while still using the same assembly line for a design that is derivative and shares most of the same parts and production processes.
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