PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Bltizo said:

In that case, IN pilots still have that benchmark to cross.

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Agreed, of course they will. Never have implied that they do not. Just saying they have the production aircraft to begin doing so as rapidly as they please once they get the carrier. The PLAN does not yet have their production naval strike aircraft. That is all.

Bltizo said:

I suppose it is a matter of opinion as to whether 16 mig-29ks constitute enough of an airwing to be considered enough

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The Indians stood up their active, in service Vikramaditya air wing squadron in May of this year. They have all 16 aircraft for the air wing they intend on the Virkramaditya. Clearly, it has not deployed to the carrier yet...they do not have the carrier yet. But it looks like it will be coming late this fall, and so they can then start.

That's my only point, guys. the Indians are going to have a full air wing of in service, production aircraft, with all of their pilots already flying them to start training on the carrier. That will allow them to move much more rapidly than if they only had 2 or 4 aircraft available.

Unless the PLAN gets more aircraft for their pilots to train on, it is inevitable, short of some catastrophe, that the Indians will pass them in terms of having a full air wing prepared and trained to operate off of their carrier.

OT, history.
The Indian navy has experience with a steam cat: its first carrier, R11, had one and launched Hawker Sea Hawks from it as well as Breguet Alize ASW aircraft. But those Sea Hawks ended their service in 1983. See and .

delft said:

OT, history.
The Indian navy has experience with a steam cat: its first carrier, R11, had one and launched Hawker Sea Hawks from it as well as Breguet Alize ASW aircraft. But those Sea Hawks ended their service in 1983. See

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and

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.

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If you used that claim , can I say JMSDF is most experienced of all asian navy now in term of carriers ops because of their superior IJN carrier 60 years ago?

Jeff Head said:

I do not believe that the PLAN will have 16 or 24 production aircraft by the end of this year...or by the end of next year for that matter. That's not a slam on the Chinese...it's just a statement of fact and reality.

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It seems like you keep insisting full air wing ready will be as proof of IN is ahead of PLAN in STOBAR operation. How do you know PLAN airwing is not ready in time this year? There is many news from flanker thread suggest CV-16 Liaoning airwing will be ready soon. I do not know how do you miss that?

Jeff Head said:

Agreed, of course they will. Never have implied that they do not. Just saying they have the production aircraft to begin doing so as rapidly as they please once they get the carrier. The PLAN does not yet have their production naval strike aircraft. That is all.

The Indians stood up their active, in service Vikramaditya air wing squadron in May of this year. They have all 16 aircraft for the air wing they intend on the Virkramaditya. Clearly, it has not deployed to the carrier yet...they do not have the carrier yet. But it looks like it will be coming late this fall, and so they can then start.

That's my only point, guys. the Indians are going to have a full air wing of in service, production aircraft, with all of their pilots already flying them to start training on the carrier. That will allow them to move much more rapidly than if they only had 2 or 4 aircraft available.

Unless the PLAN gets more aircraft for their pilots to train on, it is inevitable, short of some catastrophe, that the Indians will pass them in terms of having a full air wing prepared and trained to operate off of their carrier.

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Technically, IN will receive Vikramditya with a "full" squadron of Mig-29Ks (but by the sounds of it they won't have a full squadron's worth of pilots), whereas PLAN commissioned Liaoning with only a handful of test J-15s.

But depending on how far along SAC is with the first J-15 production batch, the quantitative "lead" in the IN's Mig-29Ks may not be sustained for long, considering PLAN had graduated their first batch of carrier pilots many months ago and have probably/are in the process of churning out more.

So I would argue that while IN may have a temporary lead in airframes, the fact that PLAN was able to graduate pilots first (albeit using only a handful of airframes) combined with the very likely possibility that the first batch of J-15s will imminently appear, means both navies will have a similarly in/experienced and in/competent carrier circa mid 2014.

This all depends on SAC and J-15, of course. If SAC or PLANAF somehow delays J-15 production for a year, then IN will hold a not insubstantial lead.

The Liaoning is supposed to be at sea since 15 august is there any news of that ?

Lion said:

If you used that claim , can I say JMSDF is most experienced of all asian navy now in term of carriers ops because of their superior IJN carrier 60 years ago?

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There can be some connection with people still in service with IN who worked on R11 thirty years ago. But I don't think it is very important. That's why I said OT.
Those more than 68 years between IJN and when JMSDF acquires F-35B's for its flattops, if it ever does, precludes any relevant transfer of experience.

Sea trails under shipyard

first sea trial (10 august 2011 – 13 august 2011) (3 days)
second sea trial (28 november 2011 – 10 december 2011) (12 days)
third sea trial (20 december 2011 – 29 december 2011) (9 days)
fourth sea trial (7 january 2012 – 16 january 2012) (9 days)
fifth sea trial (19 april 2012 – 30 april 2012) (11 days)
sixth sea trial (7 may 2012 – 16 may 2012) (9 days)
seventh sea trial (23 may 2012 – 1 june 2012) (9 days)
eighth sea trial (7 june 2012 – 21 june 2012 ) (14 days)
ninth sea trial (6 july 2012 – 30 july 2012) (24 days)
tenth sea trial (27 august 2012 – 30 august 2012) (3 days)

total 103 days at sea in 1 year and 20 days

Sea trials under PLAN (commissioned on 25 september 2012)

first sea trial (11 october 2012 – 30 october 2012) (19 days)
second sea trail (12 november 2012 – 25 november 2012) (13 days)
third sea trial (11 june 2013 - 3 july 2013) (22 days)
fourth sea trial (15th august 2013 - pending) (__ days)

total days at sea 157 days (plus actual sea trial)

Good thing I was asleep when you gents were arguing about the PLAN CV program Vs the IN program...Can't do that! Read the rules.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/announcements/forum-rules-all-members-please-read-20.html

Topics to compare Indian defense against Chinese defense or any India Vs China discussion are not allowed in this Forum!!!!

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Sooo..let's move on to the next episode shall we?

bd popeye super moderator

Lion said:

How do you know PLAN airwing is not ready in time this year? There is many news from flanker thread suggest CV-16 Liaoning airwing will be ready soon. I do not know how do you miss that?

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I missed 12-18 or more operational J-15s, full-production birds, being shown in an operational squadron? If I did, I apologize...but I do not think a force of that many operational J-15s exist.

The posts on this forum that "suggest" they will be ready soon mean nothing when it comes to aircraft actually prepared to fly aboard the carrier.

To date, the whole world has seen two prototype test aircraft and one service aircraft operate off of the Liaoning. I believe in total there are perhaps eight J15 at this point, and probably half of them are proto-type, non production aircraft.

We have discussed this on the forum many times. In order for the Liaoning to become a full fledged aircraft carrier, they need to have a full-fledged air wing of strike aircraft to operate off of it. One they have qualified and then trained all of their airwing pilots on.

I am actually very excited about the progress the PLAN has made and have been watching it develop for over ten years. I am somewhat mystified at the slow production rate of the J-15s. Either the PLAN/PRC feels it has other priorities at this point and is not producing them so it can fill those other priorities, or they have problems with the aircraft and are working those out.

But that's just my opinion.