PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
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I think, what you can say is that we don't agree on the purpose of a carrier in the first place.
Lets see my understanding,
The first carriers were built to provide gunnery observation for battleships. cira 1910s basically launch only, sea plane recover or ditch.
The next generation was built to carry planes that can shoot down enemy spotter planes. cira 1920s like the Hermes, Argus, Hosho, Langley.
Then when planes got strong enough to carry bombs and torpedos, they became the premium strike platform as fleet carriers became in WW2 to today.
Then you have your, basket of carriers for different task, such escort carriers for fleet air cover, fleet carrier for fleet operation, strike carriers for launching strikes against generally tactical targets, - both of which have merged back together now since now fleet carriers have the speed for strike role. Then you have Russian cruiser carriers for fleet air defense role and missile strike role.
So what can a 10 aircraft capacity carrier do? Disaster relief, better to have a LHA, LHD or a LPH.
The HTMS Chakri Naruebet is a very small ship, 11.5K tonnes full load, 25.5 knots max, the America class LHA is 4X the tonnage, a well deck. Operate it as an LDH with a ski ramp? definitely not the best combination.
I do not think the overall size of the island has changed much at all in terms of footprint.
But they are adding those new structures on to the exiting island and modifying it for what (IMHO) is going to be a new sensor outfit.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
The Chinese captions identify the upper photo as the suspected stern of the Chinese carrier and the lower photo for comparison is the stern of the USS Gerald Ford while it was under construction.
Good! because I was going to say that sure looks like a USN CVN to me!
A lot more than disaster relief.
If the carrier carries fixed wing strike aircraft, six or eight of those is an effective tool for either air defense, strike, or CAS.
Actually, the America does NOT have a well deck. it is optimized to do two things, and any combination of them. Either heavy air assault and CAS of the troops, or to operate as a fixed wing aircraft carrier with up to 20 JSFs.
The US will build two of these, and then go back to building more of the LHAs that have well decks to add Amphibious assault.
The America and the Tripoli, which are the aircraft-centric LHA versions, are going to be very important tools for the US Marines and the US Navy. Once they have a refueling V-22 and an AEW V-22 (which have both been considered but not adopted yet) these types of STOVL carriers...from smaller ones like the THai Naruebet to the Korean Dokdo, to the potential Japanese Izumo, the Italian Cavour, the Spanish Juan Carlos (and potentially the Australian and Turkish varieties of that design) are all going to be much more versatile and powerful carriers in their own right, and they are going to have to be much more respected as such...in addition to their other roles.
The US has the dollars, the capacity, and the know how to build all three types separately (CVNs, LHDs and LHAs) and outfit them all with fixed wing aircraft.
Other nations do not, so they are developing and sending to sea carriers that are more multi-functional.
With the F-35 and those potential; stronger refueling and AEW capabilities...they will all have much better capability.
Now, Having said ALL of that...this entire discussion about the US and other nations capabilities in this regard is really OT on the PLAN Carrier thread.
Please. get back on topic.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Pardon if this was posted before but it's the clearest shot I've seen of the section that has been long speculated about.
I see in the Adm K. class wiki that Liaoning was laid down 6 December 1985 and launched on 4 December 1988, that is three years later. If what we see building in Dalian is the next flattop and that she will be of the same size we can expect launch in three years after being laid down as it is likely that the shipyard equipment in Dalian will be more modern than that in Nikolayev in the '80's and this should compensate for it being the first flattop being build there.
It will be the second one to be fitted out so that too shouldn't take a very long time.
Assuming continued production that would suggest one flattop every three years for Dalian in the twenties. With a same production rate at JN that would give China a new aircraft carrier every year and a half. That seems rather high. Just wondering ....
It will be the second one to be fitted out so that too shouldn't take a very long time.
Assuming continued production that would suggest one flattop every three years for Dalian in the twenties. With a same production rate at JN that would give China a new aircraft carrier every year and a half. That seems rather high. Just wondering ....
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I'd give it four years for building and two to work up to commissioning. Six years...which they may well be able to cut to five.
The fact is, the refit of the Liaoning itself took them six years. From 2005 until 2011. We all watched it right here. She went to sea in Aug 2011 and was commissioned (quicly) in September 2012 without any air wing. She has been "working up," ever since, and the most aircraft on her decks we have actually seen to date is four...so she is not a viable aircraft carrier to this date., ten years later.
I do not say this as any kind of downplay. I respect greatly what the PRC has done here. it is just the reality. The fact is, she is working up and she will become a very viable carrier, as will her sisters.
I do say all of this to make sure we do not get unrealistic expectations. China is moving at her own pace. Very deliberate and very careful.
So, based on that, what we have actually seen in China, I do not expect tot see the PLAN build carriers at two locations...they simply do not need that many that fast. I expect they will build carriers at one place and large deck amphibs at another.
But...that is purely my opinion.
Clearly the PRC is capable of building carriers at more than one place if they so desire. I just do not expect their plans to call for inducting and commissioning them at that fast a pace.
Pretty sure photos of something similar, not exactly this, have been posted a while back. There was a lot of guessing about it being scaled down mockups but nothing ever came of it. I don't think this module is part of a carrier or LHD etc. either, the side opening is too close to the water line and also seems too small.
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