PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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Equation

Lieutenant General
I'm only questioning the accuracy of the report from WantChinaTimes that is well known for its unreliability.

As for the Liaoning I try to take a realistic view. I find the carrier to be quite impressive, but the ships design has its limitations. I think that 20 Flankers and 12 helicopters is the best air wing composition for the Liaoning. That means 14 to 16 Flankers on the flight deck with another 4 to 6 Flankers below in the hangar. And then there are the helicopters. If you add another 4 Flankers in to the equation then the space both on the flight deck and in the hangar deck may become too tight to operate smoothly and safely.

I do believe that the Liaoning is able to carry 24 Flankers and maybe they will. But I don't think they should.

I say all 20 of the flankers will be below deck along with 6 to 8 helicopters. The other helicopters had to be outdoors on deck with chains of course bearing all the elements. The more expensive toys gets to be indoors, while the more expandable one will be outdoors.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
I'm only questioning the accuracy of the report from WantChinaTimes that is well known for its unreliability.

As for the Liaoning I try to take a realistic view. I find the carrier to be quite impressive, but the ships design has its limitations. I think that 20 Flankers and 12 helicopters is the best air wing composition for the Liaoning. That means 14 to 16 Flankers on the flight deck with another 4 to 6 Flankers below in the hangar. And then there are the helicopters. If you add another 4 Flankers in to the equation then the space both on the flight deck and in the hangar deck may become too tight to operate smoothly and safely.

I do believe that the Liaoning is able to carry 24 Flankers and maybe they will. But I don't think they should.

Don't think so either but she can certainly carry up to 36 j-15s in a surge. It all depends on the composition of the rotary air wings and the length of time embarked because you cannot surge for too long otherwise accidents will likely happen and people die.
They may decide to cut down on the number of helos under normal conditions in which case they can certainly put 2 squadrons of 12 flankers each on board... maybe 24 Flankers and 8 helos ?

don;t know.

If I ran the show this is what I would put on her under peacetime conditions and conforming to the limitations they have

2 Strike fighter squadrons comprising 22 strike fighters and 2 EW planes - 24 birds

6 helos

2 AEW type aircraft be it rotary or fixed wing

Like you, I think 24 fixed wing and 8 rotary is a good composition for Liaoning. She may also need a COD type aircraft.
 

Franklin

Captain
I say all 20 of the flankers will be below deck along with 6 to 8 helicopters. The other helicopters had to be outdoors on deck with chains of course bearing all the elements. The more expensive toys gets to be indoors, while the more expandable one will be outdoors.

The size of the hangar deck is 153m x 26m. And the Flanker is only 21,9m long its even shorter in the hangar as you can fold the Flankers tail. You can in theory place 14 planes in a row. And with the wings folded you can have two rows. Thats 14 planes at least. And if you put it in a zig zag pattern its even more than 14.

But the main purpose of the hangar deck is to fix and maintain the planes. If you have 4 to 6 Flankers in the hangar that will take up more than a quarter to a third of the hangar deck leaving you with the rest of the hangar deck to work with to maintaining the planes. If you have a full flightdeck and a cramp hangar deck its not going to be very effective. And if you have a 30 to 40 days deployment those planes will need maintenance at some point and you will need the space in the hangar deck.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I think you guys are reading too much into it. First off did the person actually said 'upper hand' or was it translated into English?
Well, we can only go by the report...but what it said was pretty clear.

Report said:
Cao Dongwei, senior colonel and researcher at the People's Liberation Army Naval Research Institute, said the aircraft carrier could gain the upper hand in any potential battle for air or sea supremacy.

I actually tried to tone it down and seek to apply it to other nations, or to future PLAN developments for the reasons I stated.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
If I ran the show this is what I would put on her under peacetime conditions and conforming to the limitations they have

2 Strike fighter squadrons comprising 22 strike fighters and 2 EW planes - 24 birds

6 helos

2 AEW type aircraft be it rotary or fixed wing

Like you, I think 24 fixed wing and 8 rotary is a good composition for Liaoning. She may also need a COD type aircraft.

With an airwing with those big J-15 aboard they better import some
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to handle those bad boys...just kidding.

I wonder when we will see a fully operational PLAN air wing? This year/ Next year.. within five years? Who knows for sure? I sure don't.

I fully expect the PLAN CV programme to surprise us..one way or another.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I would be a bit concerned about the carrier cleared J-15 certified pilots

I mean China did qualify these pilots with J-15 but in 6 months they will be very much out of shape

There's no point in certifying pilots if all they are going to do is get certified

The more you sweat in training the less you will bleed in war, carrier pilots are naval aviators and amongst the best of the best fighter aircraft pilots they are at the top and if you want to stay at the top you need to do one thing and that is train, train train and train more otherwise at that level you will loose your edge very very quickly

Liaoning is out for a long time
 

Franklin

Captain
I would be a bit concerned about the carrier cleared J-15 certified pilots

I mean China did qualify these pilots with J-15 but in 6 months they will be very much out of shape

There's no point in certifying pilots if all they are going to do is get certified

The more you sweat in training the less you will bleed in war, carrier pilots are naval aviators and amongst the best of the best fighter aircraft pilots they are at the top and if you want to stay at the top you need to do one thing and that is train, train train and train more otherwise at that level you will loose your edge very very quickly

Liaoning is out for a long time

Those pilots are now training hard at the land facility. For the first time they now got more than just the handful of prototypes to fly with. We have now at least 9 production planes and more are coming. I think when the Liaoning goes out to sea again by the end of this year they will start to land on the Liaoning again and hopefully this time with some of the production planes. By the end of next year we may have an air wing of 12 to 16 Flankers on the Liaoning.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Those pilots are now training hard at the land facility. For the first time they now got more than just the handful of prototypes to fly with. We have now at least 9 production planes and more are coming. I think when the Liaoning goes out to sea again by the end of this year they will start to land on the Liaoning again and hopefully this time with some of the production planes. By the end of next year we may have an air wing of 12 to 16 Flankers on the Liaoning.

That's fair enough but does the land facility simulate the pitch and roll of the carrier, can it simulate the air, wind, sea and day conditions of a carrier? Maybe close but never the real thing

Only way to train for carrier operations is being in the Ocean with a actual carrier and the air wing

It's early days yet but I hope China recognises the importance of carrier deployments and the cycles that go with it so do it properly and I mean properly you can't cut cost with carriers they cost a fortune and you have to pay fortune to run them
 

Franklin

Captain
That's fair enough but does the land facility simulate the pitch and roll of the carrier, can it simulate the air, wind, sea and day conditions of a carrier? Maybe close but never the real thing

Only way to train for carrier operations is being in the Ocean with a actual carrier and the air wing

It's early days yet but I hope China recognises the importance of carrier deployments and the cycles that go with it so do it properly and I mean properly you can't cut cost with carriers they cost a fortune and you have to pay fortune to run them

Don't worry once the Liaoning is back at sea the pilots will start doing their landings and take offs again from the ship. And once they feel that the pilots and the ships crew are ready they will embark the air wing on the Liaoning. China has already spend billions of dollars over the past 16 years or more on the aircraft carrier project they won't slack or be cheap now.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
?..once they feel that the pilots and the ships crew are ready they will embark the air wing on the Liaoning. China has already spend billions of dollars over the past 16 years or more on the aircraft carrier project they won't slack or be cheap now.
I agree.

And with actual production J-15 aircraft rolling off the line now, we can make some potential predictions about what course they may take.

With almost all nations, when you move from the prototype stage to the initial production aircraft, those initial aircraft first go into test squadrons, then to training squadrons, and then to actual front line squadrons.

We are all going to get to watch and see how the PLAN proceeds with their business in this regard for the J-15s and their carrier(s).

If they intend to get the Liaoning air wing up as quickly as possible, we'll see the initial squadron or two doing all three duties. Moving more rapidly to an initial production squadron on the Liaoning carrier.

If, OTOH, they take a longer, more conservative and structured view, intending to prepare for and train multiple air wings for multiple carriers, we may see them move more slowly. First forming up a full test squadron to do the testing and qualifying of current and future weapons and sensors...and then a training squadron or two to train pilots at their extensive land based facility for the coming air wings, starting with the Liaoning, and then moving those trained and certified pilots into production, front line squadrons for the carrier(s).

We shall just have to see.
 
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