PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
To me it looks like the air wing is going to come of age in 2014 for the Liaoning

The aircraft are being built and delivered and the helos are flying, not too long to go before we see Liaoning carrying some serious air wing, Liaoning will finish strong this year or so we hope
 
F

Franklin

Captain
Digitization and automation is already a factor on the Liaoning. As it has a highly digital and integrated system on board and that combined with removing the weapons from the original design has helped to reduce the ships crew by several hundreds compared to the original of the Admiral Kuznetsov. But they will have to increase the size of the deck and maintenance crew of the ship if they want to operate 20 to 24 Flankers and do it American style that requires more deck crew and mechanics. It seems that every nation in the world that operates carriers use the color coated deck crew system except for the Russians.

I think that China shouldn't go for a CATOBAR carrier right away after Liaoning. And should have a in between carrier that have both a ski jump and cats as well. The reason for it is interoperability with the Liaoning and her air wing and the future CATOBAR carrier and its air wing. They will have to make changes to the J-15 in order for it to be able to launch from a catapult. And they need to train up crew for using and maintaining the cats as well. Everyone talks about China developing an EM cat like those on the new Gerald R. Ford class but for me a steam cat will do just as well. And China has been able to study the steam cat design since 1985 when the Chinese got their hands on the HMAS Melbourne a CATOBAR carrier of the Australian navy. The steam cats were intact when it arrived in China and the PLAN has taken it out and studied it for a long time. No one actually knows how far China's catapult development is but everyone seems to be sure that China is involved in it.
 
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escobar

escobar

Brigadier
During the training mission in the South China Sea, the Liaoning, has conducted more than 100 tests and training tasks.

"The Liaoning successfully performed several tests of the combat system and organized for the first time comprehensive combat training," the People's Liberation Army navy said in a statement. "Through this operation, we tested the carrier's combat capability and tried the performance of its propulsion and seaworthiness."

The mission is characterized by a large number of tests, rigorous standards, complicated circumstances as well as collaboration with multiple military units. "The South China Sea has deep waters, strong wind and big waves, making it a suitable place for the aircraft carrier to conduct tests and training," said Senior Captain Zhang Zheng, captain of the Liaoning.

Crewmembers also have performed a series of tests on items such as the ship structure's resistance to stress, sailing speed in deep waters and stability of weapons and equipment, he added, noting that combat departments practiced exercises to defend incoming hostile aircraft, ships and submarines.

Several types of aircraft, combat ships and submarines were dispatched to cooperate with the carrier during the mission, which simulates real combat situations, according to Zhang.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Franklin said:
Digitization and automation is already a factor on the Liaoning. As it has a highly digital and integrated system on board and that combined with removing the weapons of the original design has helped to reduce the ships crew by several hundreds compared to the original of the Admiral Kuznetsov. But they will have to increase the size of the deck and maintenance crew of the ship if they want to operate 20 to 24 Flankers and do it American style that requires more deck crew and mechanics. It seems that every nation in the world that operates carriers use the color coated deck crew system except for the Russians.

I think that China shouldn't go for a CATOBAR carrier right away after Liaoning. And should have a in between carrier that have both a ski jump and cats as well. The reason for it is interoperability with the Liaoning and her air wing and the future CATOBAR carrier and its air wing. They will have to make changes on the J-15 in order for it to be able to launch from a catapult. And they need to train up crew for using and maintaining the cats as well. Everyone talks about China developing an EM cat like those on the new Gerald R. Ford class but for me a steam cat will do just as well. And China has been able to study the steam cat design since 1985 when the Chinese got their hands on the HMAS Melbourne a CATOBAR carrier of the Australian navy. The steam cats were intact when it arrived in China and the PLAN has taken it out and studied it for a long time. No one actually knows how far China's catapult development is but everyone seems to be sure that China is involved in it.
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Excellent post Franklin, and makes a lot of sense, I agree that the steam catapult is still quite effective and would serve with distinction if called upon, and it is much more straight forward and doable than emals.....
 
A

advill

Junior Member
Impressive video. Good publicity for the PLA-N. Most of us who had dealings with the Chinese whether militarily, business or at universities know that their people are intelligent and can learn things very quickly. However, having said that, besides knowing the rudiments of carrier and air ops thru' exercises, involvements in actual sea and air battles are the true tests of the naval & air expertise. The United States & Britain have been involved in combats, not only during WW II but also during the Korean War, Falklands, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. In Asia, Japanese Forces (Army, Navy & Air Force) had the battle experiences during WW II, but fortunately the US and its allies gave the aggressors then a "pasting" and Japan lost the war. I am not suggesting that countries should test their naval & air capabilities by going into skirmishes or open hostilities. Not worth it, unless there is absolute confidence in winning. However conflicts these days will be catastrophic, vis-à-vis in a modern and high-tech warfare. Let the politicians aided by their diplomats settle issues rationally without being emotional.


Air Force Brat said:
outstanding escobar, lots of business like and ship shape activities, though I did think the think the young Chines dude in the Yellow reminded me of the minions on "despicable me", one of my new favorite movies. and its more than obvious that President Xi commands respect, he may be tough, but he is obviously very pleased with the Liaoning, and the aircrew, nice for service people to have that kind of leadership... looking good here people. brat
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plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
advill said:
Impressive video. Good publicity for the PLA-N. Most of us who had dealings with the Chinese whether militarily, business or at universities know that their people are intelligent and can learn things very quickly. However, having said that, besides knowing the rudiments of carrier and air ops thru' exercises, involvements in actual sea and air battles are the true tests of the naval & air expertise. The United States & Britain have been involved in combats, not only during WW II but also during the Korean War, Falklands, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. In Asia, Japanese Forces (Army, Navy & Air Force) had the battle experiences during WW II, but fortunately the US and its allies gave the aggressors then a "pasting" and Japan lost the war. I am not suggesting that countries should test their naval & air capabilities by going into skirmishes or open hostilities. Not worth it, unless there is absolute confidence in winning. However conflicts these days will be catastrophic, vis-à-vis in a modern and high-tech warfare. Let the politicians aided by their diplomats settle issues rationally without being emotional.
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What relevance does WWII combat experience have in this day and age really?

There is also a massive question mark over just how much 'combat' experience one can gain when fighting against hopelessly outmatched foes who didn't even have the means to try and fight back.

One can even argue that US and allied fighter pilots may have actually lost proficiency in many key fields of air combat as a result of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since they spend so much of their time out on patrol essentially cruising around with nothing to do whereas they would have been engaged in intensive training had they been back home in peace time.

There is a great deal of value in doing things for real, I'm not trying to say combat experience counts for nothing. But combat experience that involves essentially pummelling an opponent who cannot fight back can only teach you so much.

When it comes to fighting a highly trained professional adversary wielding the full range of modern weapons systems in all their forces in significant numbers, the US and allies has precisely as much real world experience as China or India or Russia, which is to say 'nada'.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
One can even argue that US and allied fighter pilots may have actually lost proficiency in many key fields of air combat as a result of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since they spend so much of their time out on patrol essentially cruising around with nothing to do whereas they would have been engaged in intensive training had they been back home in peace time
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USAF,USN,USMC pilots train even when deployed. The greater percentage of their flights are training. Believe it or not. And when at the home bases that is all they do.

So those pilots are trained and prepared for any eventuality.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
plawolf said:
What relevance does WWII combat experience have in this day and age really?

There is also a massive question mark over just how much 'combat' experience one can gain when fighting against hopelessly outmatched foes who didn't even have the means to try and fight back.

One can even argue that US and allied fighter pilots may have actually lost proficiency in many key fields of air combat as a result of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since they spend so much of their time out on patrol essentially cruising around with nothing to do whereas they would have been engaged in intensive training had they been back home in peace time.

There is a great deal of value in doing things for real, I'm not trying to say combat experience counts for nothing. But combat experience that involves essentially pummelling an opponent who cannot fight back can only teach you so much.

When it comes to fighting a highly trained professional adversary wielding the full range of modern weapons systems in all their forces in significant numbers, the US and allies has precisely as much real world experience as China or India or Russia, which is to say 'nada'.
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Wolfie, Wolfie, what in the world are you trying to say, there are literally thousands of Posts by bd, Jeff, Navy Reco, TP, and the Eng and that just scratches the surface, combat is combat, no one is better equipped or trained than the US military and our Allies, we have trained like we intend to fight, training that is so intense and realistic that it is nearly as realistic as the real thing, in fact a lot of good people die it is so real. Why pray tell has the PLAN emulated the carrier ops of the US, ONE reason, and One reason only, we have a history at this, we lost some and we won some, we have payed a huge price, and everyone who is an honest student of history knows the truth, we are good at what we do.

IMHO one of the reasons the world as we know it continues to turn on its axis, with the relative peace and prosperity of the post World War II challenges, is the security provided by the US military and our Allies. Did we learn something in Korea, SEA, Iraq and Ahghanistan, absolutely.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
kwaigonegin said:
hey brat, are your cattles better than the Waygu beef? I do live in the midwest so I've gotten plenty of good steaks but Im easy to please.. as long as the grill can go above 400 it'll make good steak. Probelm with most folks is they don't have the grill hot enough before they throw the meat in.
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Yes Sir!
 
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