PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Hendrik_2000 said:

It is nothing but BS.You admonish people not to post BS but you yourself post BS what a shame.If this is major failure they will ground the fleet No flight whatsoever.

We don't see such drastic measure. They will not proceed with LRIP if this is true. So the usual BS chatter .But you like it since it fit your dislike and prejudice of Shenyang
No amount of prestige worth the life of a pilot even for China

This forum is going the drain with people pushing their own agenda and prejudice

Click to expand...

Wow chill out Hendrik. Whatever SAC screwed up with J-15 probably is due to project management relating to delays or something, and may not be a problem that is permanently affecting the aircraft's performance
But bad project management would certainly reflect badly on SAC as a whole and could easily shift the contract to CAC.

As for personal agendas, you should apply a little critical thinking before accusing others of it

Bltizo said:

Wow chill out Hendrik. Whatever SAC screwed up with J-15 probably is due to project management relating to delays or something, and may not be a problem that is permanently affecting the aircraft's performance
But bad project management would certainly reflect badly on SAC as a whole and could easily shift the contract to CAC.

As for personal agendas, you should apply a little critical thinking before accusing others of it

Click to expand...

That is your interpretation. Assuming this was delay. For some one who never ever built carrier based Aircraft, and now enter LRIP only after 4yr of testing is unbelievable feat.

So using my critical thinking it is not possible that PLAN will gripe about the delay. They might award the next contract to CAC for the next generation but that is because CAC design is more superior

Any rumor that show China in positive light he always caution people not to trust the rumor. But on the other hand if the rumor reflect negatively on China he treat the rumor as fact If that is not agenda. I don't know what it is ?

tphuang said:

noise there also says that 601 institute messed up something major on J-15 and that the next generation naval jet contract is going to be awarded to CAC. We'll see if any of this happens.

Click to expand...

Could you give us some more details ? Like what kind of a mess up and has it been resolved yet ?

Engineer said:

When you mention canard being used for control and stability, you are referring to control-canard. Nevertheless, the canard can still contribute to lift by creating a set of vortices that pass over the wing. The amount of lift increase depends on the strength of that vortex. While one of those factors that affects vortex strength is AoA, the increase in maneuverability is really due to increase in lift. During lift-off and approach, the aircraft would see not as high AoA, but there would still be some lift increase to lower the stall speed.



Here is a picture of J-10 doing approach. The canard is deflected upward, suggesting that it does carry a portion of the weight of the aircraft. Lift generation at the canard also means a vortex is formed, which in turn increases the lift at the wing. These are two additional sources of lift, compare to a pure delta which has none.

The canard on the J-10 also deflects upward during cruise, but only for 1°~2°. The canard is used all the time, not just at the moment of take-off.

Click to expand...

I know this is a bit off topic here, but i would just like to mention, you can easily tell the canard is generating lift by seeing the cross section of the pivot. It is a cambered airfoil... The one thing i can foresee about the J-10 being incapable of naval modification would be its single instead of twin power plant. The Chinese are fairly determined to make their naval fighters twin engines due to the nature of their mission and the safety it provides.

Gentlemen..



As you all know we have a J-10 thread..

New J-10 Thread III

and knock of the stupid arguments.

bd popeye super moderator

Alright, clearly people aren't getting the point of my original post.

My point was that we do see this kind of noise on Chinese forum. We can either choose to post them or not post them. We don't need to look at them as fact. We put it in the back of our mind until further evidence comes out. In this case, I chose to post it because the source was okay and I want to make this point here. Be careful when we mention these news, as you can see certain members can blow up at any moment.

Hendrik_2000 said:

It is nothing but BS.You admonish people not to post BS but you yourself post BS what a shame.If this is major failure they will ground the fleet No flight whatsoever.

We don't see such drastic measure. They will not proceed with LRIP if this is true. So the usual BS chatter .But you like it since it fit your dislike and prejudice of Shenyang
No amount of prestige worth the life of a pilot even for China

This forum is going the drain with people pushing their own agenda and prejudice

Click to expand...

Someone mentioned noise they heard on Chinese forum. I mentioned some other noise I heard. I state clear what it is. I don't state it as a fact.

there is a huge long thread on cd on this one. There have definitely been cases where such long thread turned out to be nonsense in the past, but there have also been cases where things have been correct. If you disagree with feel free to go to CD forum and challenge the posters on there.

Blackstone said:

I disagree with your comments. The major mishaps may have nothing to do with workmanship of the J-15. Feng is not known for blowing smoke up people's yin yang, so holster your guns till more facts come out.

Click to expand...

Hendrik_2000 said:

He has been bad mouthing Shenyang for years.The success of J15 automaticaly invalidate all those chatter.
What did he know about Aerospace and engineering in general? all his information is from Chinese forum that is full of crap.

You are not buying Merc you build tool of war. Workmanship doesn't even enter into the picture

Click to expand...

my information comes from a lot of places. i'm very careful what I take out of there. If things are not confirmed, I state it that way. Now, if you don't want to take information from Chinese forum or Western media, where are you getting your information from? All of our new articles and pictures were originally discovered there. That's where we get a lot of leaks that are not heard else where.

Hendrik, you really have some anger management issues. you need to check it out.

Could you give us some more details ? Like what kind of a mess up and has it been resolved yet ?

Click to expand...

All sort of speculations were running after a somewhat well known poster said it, but the exact issue wasn't mentioned. I think we can comfortably say that J-15 program is continuing to proceed. But one thing to watch out for is who will get the contract for the next generation of naval fighter. We had been expecting SAC and J-31. It might not be that way. I think that's the biggest take-away here.

Hendrik_2000 said:

That is your interpretation.

Any rumor that show China in positive light he always caution people not to trust the rumor. But on the other hand if the rumor reflect negatively on China he treat the rumor as fact If that is not agenda. I don't know what it is ?

Click to expand...

Hendrick, I will repeat back to you your answer to Bltizo..."That is your interpretation."

My own experience has shown me that Feng is pretty even-handed in his treatment of China's military development on all sides, whether Aircraft, Military vehicles, or naval ships/vessels. I do not always agree with him, nor he with me, but I can say I have not seen any anti-Chinese or SAC "agenda" on his part. But that's just my experience.

It is clear that you disagree with Tphuang's statement...and that is fine. My recommendation would be to voice that disagreement in terms of the specifics and technical issues. What you are doing it making it a personal attack and attacking his integrity/honor/motives...and that never ends well because people will almost always defend their own honor and motives and so nothing but a back and forth arguement ensues.

So much better to just ask directly if he is mistaken, or what the nature of the rummor or information is in temrs of how it is impacting the J-15. For example, is it Project Management based? Is it structural, electronic, avionics, etc. based? Such questions as these lead to discussion between posters that allows each person to decide for themselves the validity or veracity of the information.

But when we attack one another, it ends up hurting the forum in general because invariably people take sides against one another, and others (who probably are lurking and not posting) end up leaving the forum quietly becauser they do not want that type of discourse, believing that sooner or later it may be directed at them.

Anyhow, just my opinion. It cost nothing, but it is freely and sincerely given.

End of off topic comments on my part.

Now, does anyone have any details or evidence of any night time landing ops on the Liaoning?

I personally believe it has not happened yet and that they are building up to it. It will be some time IMHO. It takes a lot of experience and is more difficult and dangerous so I would be surprised if they had done it yet. Better to get a number of pilots qualified at straight forward daylight operations, and then let them gain a LOT of experience doing that, to the point where it is almost second nature, then bring them into night-time landings and take-offs.

The Success of J15 is hinged on Production rate, how fast SAC can produce them along with WS10A from Shenyang Liming fitted to J15.

Right now, there are ONLY a few J15 with AL-31F, SAC has not pass the Test yet.

TyroneG said:

The Success of J15 is hinged on Production rate, how fast SAC can produce them along with WS10A from Shenyang Liming fitted to J15.

Right now, there are ONLY a few J15 with AL-31F, SAC has not pass the Test yet.

Click to expand...

The truth will be out soon...

【环球网报道 记者 刘昆】据加拿大《汉和防务评论》2013年8月刊(提前出版)报道，中国船舶工业界的消息来源证实，中国上海的江南长兴岛造船厂有能力建设中国国产航母，该造船厂已经在室内船台上完成了一段航母分段模型的建造。

　　文章称，中国海军的领导人参观了这一模型，模型以全尺寸方式模拟了航母的一个分段，但是并没有采用全高度。这意味着中国航母的建造是采用分段技术，最后在船坞内部组装的建造方式。江南厂希望能获得国产航母的合同，但是中国海军目前尚未与任何船厂签订正式合同，因此大连造船厂虎视眈眈。

　　此前据媒体报道，长兴岛造船厂始建于2005年6月份，首期项目投资36亿美元，规划在3.8公里的海岸线上建造4个干船坞、9个栈桥码头和两个货运码头。长兴造船厂有能力建造大型舰只，包括航母，该厂最大的船坞长达580米、宽120米，足以建造类似瓦良格号级别的航母。
axccording to latest issue of kanwa, shanghai and Dalian shipyard is bidding to built the first carrier,but to date PLAN has not yet make the final decision who going to built first carrier.
Shanghai ship intend to built the carrier section by section,similiar to soviet shipyard construction technique method and final assembly at shipyard.