PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Franklin said:

The reasons why i believe that the Liaoning will be more effective:

1. The Liaoning is more streamlined and modern then the Admiral Kuznetsov by removing its weapons and by increasing the automation and digitization of the ship.

2. The J-15 is a far more modern and multi-role fighter than the SU-33.

3. The PLAN will operate her with American procedures and methods.

4. Better living conditions on board the ship will lead to higher morale amongst the crew.

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Good points, Franklin.

I will add one more.

The Liaoning is being tasked and purposed differently that the Kuznetsov was. She is meant to be an instrument of power protection and sea control as they relate to the PRC's interests. She will carry an airwing with a strike fighter that reflects that purpose. She is not just a tool to protect submarine bastions and attempt area denial to those bastions, where her airwing is principally for fleet air defense alone.

The differnces in these two strategies are immense, and will make a huge diffewrnce in the overall effcetivness of the carrier on a broader scale.

i.e. said:

I never understood why NATO was so fearful of Kiev.
Its airwing capability is less than that of Invincible class harrier carriers and its defensive weapons were all existing weapon systems.

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Not just lesser aircraft but the yak-38 for all intent and purposes were pretty much useless except for very limited combat roles. Certainly no where close to the Harriers let alone the F-14s, F-4s, A-7s etc of the US carriers.

I think part of the 'fear' was just in the general sense of the growing capabilities of the then Soviet Navy and part of it are the fear of the SSN-12 ASMs located out front. Those massive missiles were definitely feared by NATO ships back then. A lot of shipmates woud've had a very very bad day even if one of those reached out and touched you.

Jeff Head said:

Andy, I used the figures popeye posted in this response:

Popeye's earlier post

...where he compared the US Navy R/A-5C Vigilante to the J-15.

But I believe the original source may be Aviata.net, here:

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I have to admit that I think the number is high.

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A naval variant of the WS-15 may have 33,000 pounds of thrust. WS-10A/B/H? I can't see it, certainly not within a reasonable time frame. At present it's closer to 28,000 pounds of thrust, and may eventually reach almost 30,000. But another 3,000 pounds is I fear a bridge too far for even as venerable a core as that of the WS-10.

Preux said:

A naval variant of the WS-15 may have 33,000 pounds of thrust. WS-10A/B/H? I can't see it, certainly not within a reasonable time frame. At present it's closer to 28,000 pounds of thrust, and may eventually reach almost 30,000. But another 3,000 pounds is I fear a bridge too far for even as venerable a core as that of the WS-10.

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Ahh...but the GE F110-132 is capable of 32,500 pounds of thrust, so we at least know the core by design should be capable of this.

...where he compared the US Navy R/A-5C Vigilante to the J-15.

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Important figures are stall- and approachspeed, in particular for the first carrier aircraft of a new carrier-nation.

peterAustralia said:

Can I ask a question. Fast jets can use the ski jump, but apparently AEW craft like the Hawkeye cant use a ski jump. What is the reason they cant? Do they not have the strong enough undercarriage, are they not designed for such high accelerations that a ski jump entails,,, is the propellers that cause issues?

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There is no reason why an propeller aircraft cannot be designed to use a ski ramp. Indeed Northrop Grumman has said that Hawkeyes can use the ski ramps of the Indian carriers. You just need adequate acceleration.

If you had an animal and it would always sit there and never potter around, you would think, something is wrong: it is ill.

Something is wrong with Liaoning or its aircraft! Two years after her first move I expect kind of daily business with continous air ops - even with only three aircraft.

Intrepid said:

If you had an animal and it would always sit there and never potter around, you would think, something is wrong: it is ill.

Something is wrong with Liaoning or its aircraft! Two years after her first move I expect kind of daily business with continous air ops - even with only three aircraft.

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Sloths. Your logic is invalid.

But seriously, Liaoning is a training carrier first and foremost, this was her intended purpose when the PLAN had her refitted. Training is a slow and thorough process, any attempt to rush it may yield dire consequences in the future.

Intrepid said:

If you had an animal and it would always sit there and never potter around, you would think, something is wrong: it is ill.

Something is wrong with Liaoning or its aircraft! Two years after her first move I expect kind of daily business with continous air ops - even with only three aircraft.

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Well this is still their first carrier and first time operating a ship of this size.

Also, we dont' know how vigorously they've been training, we only know the ship's port-leaving dates and that the first production batch of J-15s probably haven't taken off and landed from Liaonign yet.
But we simply don't know how vigorously they've flown, how vigorously their deck crews have trained, etc, because the PLAN only releases a set amount of pictures and videos to associate with CCTV and state news site reports.

It would be presumptuous to believe the PLAN are not making their time count out at sea.

Regarding the J-15 versus the Mig-29.

We're entering a world where affordable A2AD capabilities are spreading all across the world, which makes it increasingly deadly for any aircraft carrier to approach a hostile shoreline.

So longer range aircraft are the requirement for the future, which means the J-15 instead of the shorter range Mig-29.

In the case of the US Navy, it looks like the UCLASS is going to be really long range.