PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

GOODTREE

Junior Member
Registered Member
1/ by fighting like a real superpower instead of letting your ground forces deal with the problem alone or wait half a day for another bombarment , at that point enemy hold out already not there anymore

what i talk about is the ability to offer real time instant fire support for your assault task force (max 5 miniute waiting time)

that the thing make superpower military stand out in fight

poor military bombarment first then infantry/armor assault > if shit still too hot > retreat and wait half a fking day for another bombarment > repeat the process .....very ineffective way of fighting

superpower rich military bombarment then infantry/armor assault > if shit still too hot > radio call-in fire support > shit tons of fire balls coming in less than 5 minute wait > problem remove >infantry/armor come in finish off whatever left > keep on advance

easy to understand now ?
If that's what you're referring to, yes, China has the ability to provide tactical support to advance units, including bombing. I just don't understand why you're so enamored with that, what superpower hasn't done that? Even small countries do it, just look at Israel. But the thing is, this strategy doesn't mean that everything is going to be fine, and aerial bombardment isn't going to be terribly effective in a decentralized guerrilla war. Many of the dispersed and hidden strongholds are also ones that need to be dealt with personally by the front line troops, you can't bomb every area, and the bombing needed just to level one large stronghold is quite a bit. If you call for bombardment, the front line troops have to call for fire support themselves for some of the smaller strongholds, which means the troops have to be there first at least. And regardless of whether or not it hits, the front line troops in the bombardment zone must first retreat, so how is this different from the scenario you listed earlier? Not to mention, it would all have to be done in less than 5 minutes. Besides, you can't guarantee the terrain after the bombing, Taiwan has dense urban areas and there is a risk of blocking off the roads after the bombing, what will the front line troops do then?

2/ "but the Taiwanese are not the same to the Chinese as the Iraqis are to the Americans"

this is the extractly reason why i said : entire US/west + allied gangs + japan strategy again china/russia based on luring china/russia into a humane soft heart war vs taiwan/ukraine

3/ Besides, China seeks to control Taiwan

absolutely not , the main goal is to break and destroy US 1st island chain by set up nuclear attack submarine base there : allow PLA sub enter deep water level right from the get go , seriously threaten US naval , logistic , trading , nuclear early warning power
right now everytime PLA sub go and back US and their entirely allied gang know because water level inside first island chain too shallow

this is the main thing make US and allied gang so scare about china take over taiwan , if you watch US/west even japanese media/news you can easily notice they alway avoid talking deeply about this and focus on other reason

because they so scare about their own citizen find out the trust : find out china can easily wipe out every single thing standing on that island and take over the ruin > no point to spend effort protecting it

they want their own citizen thinking about china gonna hurt , gonna have hard time , gonna bog down by all sort of other reason such as : semi conductor industry , liberation of taiwan , bring taiwanese society back to mother land ...etc

> easier to command their citizen to support armed taiwan , defense taiwan , deterrent china goal
By “but the Taiwanese are not the same to the Chinese as the Iraqis are to the Americans” I don't just mean that the slogan that China has been putting forward since the last century is “Recover Taiwan” is different from what the Americans are aiming for in Iraq, but also because you can't make a simple analogy between a war with completely different conditions of combat environment. Also, what makes you think that China and Russia will actually adopt whatever the West says about “humane war”? The concept of “humane war” is just wrong, war can't be humane, and the reason why object to your “great bombing” is that the PLA will professionally deal with the specific situation. Not indiscriminate firepower projection.
As well, for what reason exactly do you suspect that China is just in order to build a nuclear attack submarine base there to break and destroy the US first island chain. What China has always wanted to do is to take control of Taiwan and realize its territorial integrity, fulfilling its historical mission since Chairman Mao, while ensuring the integrity of its territorial waters and homeland security, so I agree with you about breaking the first island chain. But building a nuclear submarine base? Even if you want to establish a nuclear submarine base, don't you want to control Taiwan? Isn't that the basis of everything?
In fact, what confuses me is that you say that China doesn't want to control Taiwan, yet you say things that China can only do after it has control of Taiwan.
 
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votran

New Member
Registered Member
If that's what you're referring to, yes, China has the ability to provide tactical support to advance units, including bombing. I just don't understand why you're so enamored with that, what superpower hasn't done that? Even small countries do it, just look at Israel. But the thing is, this strategy doesn't mean that everything is going to be fine, and aerial bombardment isn't going to be terribly effective in a decentralized guerrilla war. Many of the dispersed and hidden strongholds are also ones that need to be dealt with personally by the front line troops, you can't bomb every area, and the bombing needed just to level one large stronghold is quite a bit. If you call for bombardment, the front line troops have to call for fire support themselves for some of the smaller strongholds, which means the troops have to be there first at least. And regardless of whether or not it hits, the front line troops in the bombardment zone must first retreat, so how is this different from the scenario you listed earlier? Not to mention, it would all have to be done in less than 5 minutes. Besides, you can't guarantee the terrain after the bombing, Taiwan has dense urban areas and there is a risk of blocking off the roads after the bombing, what will the front line troops do then?


By “but the Taiwanese are not the same to the Chinese as the Iraqis are to the Americans” I don't just mean that the slogan that China has been putting forward since the last century is “Recover Taiwan” is different from what the Americans are aiming for in Iraq, but also because you can't make a simple analogy between a war with completely different conditions of combat environment. Also, what makes you think that China and Russia will actually adopt whatever the West says about “humane war”? The concept of “humane war” is just wrong, war can't be humane, and the reason why object to your “great bombing” is that the PLA will professionally deal with the specific situation. Not indiscriminate firepower projection.
As well, for what reason exactly do you suspect that China is just in order to build a nuclear attack submarine base there to break and destroy the US first island chain. What China has always wanted to do is to take control of Taiwan and realize its territorial integrity, fulfilling its historical mission since Chairman Mao, while ensuring the integrity of its territorial waters and homeland security, so I agree with you about breaking the first island chain. But building a nuclear submarine base? Even if you want to establish a nuclear submarine base, don't you want to control Taiwan? Isn't that the basis of everything?
In fact, what confuses me is that you say that China doesn't want to control Taiwan, yet you say things that China can only do after it has control of Taiwan.
1/ every military can offer fire support but not many have ability to offer in less than 5 or 10 minutes , an ambush in modern urban warfare can wipe out entire assault company hundred of men , dozen of tank/IFV in less than 10 minutes

if your "fire support" take half a day to come , then have fun with hundred of dead men and dozen vehicles trash while the enemy already gone , back to their based eating and drinking

know the different between real superpower military vs poor military now ?

2/ blow the road block out with even more explosive or make enemy civilians clear it for you , that way better than throw away hundred of your men lives + dozen of vehicles attacking enemy stronghold alone without fire power support

3/ force enemy pratice humane war mean exploit their feeling of "want to be the good guy" to buy time , play dirty trick , propagranda , supply the proxy , sanctions , rally allied , counter attack , slow down enemy advance ....to make enemy pay highest price as much as possible
the natural of war is very chaostic , the longer it go the more chance to fucked up happen even in case you carefully and perfectly prepare
many thing uncertain happen in war lead to so many unnecessary loss which not supposed to happen but still do
the longer time PLA spend to "liberation of taiwan , save taiwanese people , everyone claim down and stay home , PLA will try best to not harm you , we come to save you ...etc" the better chance for US/taiwan grovernment/military and entire allied gang turn the table
global warfare history already have so many example : do i need to write all of them here ?

4/ control taiwan ? i don't think china need every single thing (include living one) standing on that island
all those "things" have nothing to do with destroy 1st island chain goal

a/ china infrastructure building might = top 1 , they can rebuild everything on that island in no time

b/ china already have 1.5b people , refill that island population is even more easy cakewalk
(in case somehow half or 70% local living being cease to exist during the liberation process)

c/ hongkong with few milions young bootlickers potential traitors was already a damn big headache

i don't fucking understand why china care so much about taking in another 30 milions + willing to pay massive blood price tag for them

those taiwanese are all tech genius can make teleport portal , space ship with big death stars laser cannon or something ?
 

GOODTREE

Junior Member
Registered Member
1/ every military can offer fire support but not many have ability to offer in less than 5 or 10 minutes , an ambush in modern urban warfare can wipe out entire assault company hundred of men , dozen of tank/IFV in less than 10 minutes
Troops are often organized into smaller, more mobile subunits in such Modern tanks or IFVs can survive multiple hits from light weapons fire or light explosives, and it takes a concentrated and coordinated attack to cripple a single vehicle, much less dozens, in such a short period of time. The complexity of the urban environment - narrow streets, multi-story buildings and hidden enemy positions - makes it difficult to concentrate overwhelming firepower in such a short period of time. The Taiwanese army could have wiped out an entire PLA assault company in 10 minutes by ambush? Are the PLA wooden stakes? Do you want to look at what you are talking about.
if your "fire support" take half a day to come , then have fun with hundred of dead men and dozen vehicles trash while the enemy already gone , back to their based eating and drinking
Artillery support can't come too slowly, but let me tell you, positioning, dropping bombs plus the time felt by the fire support would have been more than ten minutes. Even with rotational ops it's still a waste of firepower if you don't know the exact target, and guess who it takes to locate the target? Also do you not know what position means? The PLA is the one attacking, the one seeking to control the land, wouldn't it be convenient for the PLA if the Taiwanese army retreated?
know the different between real superpower military vs poor military now ?
I know what the difference is when I don't see that from you. It's true that superpowers have greater logistical capabilities and firepower delivery, but if that's all your superpower army is purely about, how do you explain all the preparatory training the PLA has had its ground forces do over the years to prepare for that? Why not just develop aerial bombardment? Do you think the PLA brass hasn't thought about this?
2/ blow the road block out with even more explosive or make enemy civilians clear it for you , that way better than throw away hundred of your men lives + dozen of vehicles attacking enemy stronghold alone without fire power support
Do you have some unrealistic sexual fantasies about bombing? It's not the delete button in a game, you if you need a specialized demolition team. However that in itself takes time, not to mention how many such situations the PLA would have to deal with and how much extra explosives would need to be transported in that “great bombing” of yours. How much time would that buy the enemy? Allowing enemy civilians to remove obstacles? You're really being completely unrealistic. Why you think the so-called obstacles are just little pieces of debris? And not half of a building? If you deny this, it also means that without blowing up this section of the building, the enemy is still there. You're asking civilians to deal with this? Not to mention that it's going to take time for the PLA to get the civilians here, and it's doubtful that the PLA will be able to get to the civilians in that time. You don't mention it now. What will the enemy do with that time?
Go deeper into the enemy stronghold alone? How wrong are you about the PLA to come up with the idea that the PLA will play out the drama of an American hero movie from the last century. I realize that your trust in the PLA rests entirely on their ability to produce large quantities of artillery shells.
3/ force enemy pratice humane war mean exploit their feeling of "want to be the good guy" to buy time , play dirty trick , propagranda , supply the proxy , sanctions , rally allied , counter attack , slow down enemy advance ....to make enemy pay highest price as much as possible
the natural of war is very chaostic , the longer it go the more chance to fucked up happen even in case you carefully and perfectly prepare
many thing uncertain happen in war lead to so many unnecessary loss which not supposed to happen but still do
the longer time PLA spend to "liberation of taiwan , save taiwanese people , everyone claim down and stay home , PLA will try best to not harm you , we come to save you ...etc" the better chance for US/taiwan grovernment/military and entire allied gang turn the table
global warfare history already have so many example : do i need to write all of them here ?
Again, why on earth would you think that the PLA would fall into this “humane war” trap as you call it? Why do you think that the PLA and its top brass would have the time to listen to this stuff? And, why do you think that an army that comes to designate different battle plans for different battlefields and precise and effective strikes to achieve strategic objectives would be “humane war”? And, why do you think that the enemy's chances of flipping the game go up geometrically? Your view is rather like the view among civilians 20 years ago, i.e., once the PLA slows down, the opposite side can easily flip the game. Yes, it's a bad thing for an army to get into a protracted war, but guess how much time and ammo your “bombing program” would take? How would it change the uncertainty of the battlefield terrain?
You say there are plenty of examples, and yes, you're more than welcome to write them, and you'd better do so in detail, in as much detail as the length of the reply I've written to you, and remember to explain why they were because of so-called humane warfare rather than because of logistical conditions/operational conditions/terrain constraints/strategic errors or etc., among other reasons.
4/ control taiwan ? i don't think china need every single thing (include living one) standing on that island
all those "things" have nothing to do with destroy 1st island chain goal

a/ china infrastructure building might = top 1 , they can rebuild everything on that island in no time

b/ china already have 1.5b people , refill that island population is even more easy cakewalk
(in case somehow half or 70% local living being cease to exist during the liberation process)

c/ hongkong with few milions young bootlickers potential traitors was already a damn big headache

i don't fucking understand why china care so much about taking in another 30 milions + willing to pay massive blood price tag for them

those taiwanese are all tech genius can make teleport portal , space ship with big death stars laser cannon or something ?
For that, I highly recommend that you find out for yourself what the PLA, CCP, and government have been saying about this for decades. And then you tell me that China is just there to level the area and build military bases. For the so-called population relocation, you mean China will invest sky-high prices to rebuild Taiwan which they bombed themselves into oblivion, and then forcibly relocate their own population on that piece of land (don't tell me anything about people going there on their own, such a high population can only be relocated). Build everything in a short period of time? I suggest you take a look at the size and construction of Taiwan, in that respect you do value that piece of land... And not, Taiwan is not the only place in China to consider.
Hong Kong has millions of assholes and traitors? I recognize they exist, but millions? Hey @Biscuits do you want to say something about that?
By your own admission, China is having a headache over Hong Kong, so why hasn't China done what you think it's doing for Taiwan, and done that for Hong Kong?

Dude, you know what the marvelous bit is? I might have a part of me that looks like you. I share your concern that the process of liberating Taiwan will be disrupted, and I share your reluctance to see casualties among the PLA. I understand how you feel and I apologize for attacking you. But it is necessary, the whole conjecture you put forward is so crazy that you have to take it with a grain of salt.
 
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Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
1/ every military can offer fire support but not many have ability to offer in less than 5 or 10 minutes , an ambush in modern urban warfare can wipe out entire assault company hundred of men , dozen of tank/IFV in less than 10 minutes

if your "fire support" take half a day to come , then have fun with hundred of dead men and dozen vehicles trash while the enemy already gone , back to their based eating and drinking

know the different between real superpower military vs poor military now ?

2/ blow the road block out with even more explosive or make enemy civilians clear it for you , that way better than throw away hundred of your men lives + dozen of vehicles attacking enemy stronghold alone without fire power support

3/ force enemy pratice humane war mean exploit their feeling of "want to be the good guy" to buy time , play dirty trick , propagranda , supply the proxy , sanctions , rally allied , counter attack , slow down enemy advance ....to make enemy pay highest price as much as possible
the natural of war is very chaostic , the longer it go the more chance to fucked up happen even in case you carefully and perfectly prepare
many thing uncertain happen in war lead to so many unnecessary loss which not supposed to happen but still do
the longer time PLA spend to "liberation of taiwan , save taiwanese people , everyone claim down and stay home , PLA will try best to not harm you , we come to save you ...etc" the better chance for US/taiwan grovernment/military and entire allied gang turn the table
global warfare history already have so many example : do i need to write all of them here ?

4/ control taiwan ? i don't think china need every single thing (include living one) standing on that island
all those "things" have nothing to do with destroy 1st island chain goal

a/ china infrastructure building might = top 1 , they can rebuild everything on that island in no time

b/ china already have 1.5b people , refill that island population is even more easy cakewalk
(in case somehow half or 70% local living being cease to exist during the liberation process)

c/ hongkong with few milions young bootlickers potential traitors was already a damn big headache

i don't fucking understand why china care so much about taking in another 30 milions + willing to pay massive blood price tag for them

those taiwanese are all tech genius can make teleport portal , space ship with big death stars laser cannon or something ?
Obviously China can provide fire support to it's own troops lmfao

Even small countries like Israel can - and fire support alone is not predictive of a win, you need volume, otherwise you'll be stuck for 2 years like Israel is, rather than advancing and scoring kills like Russia. But since China is a much greater economy than Russia, it should strive towards a several times greater fire rate, of many 10 000s of munitions in a day. That can achieve a swift resolution.

Chinese forces are not just focused on repelling a full scale US invasion, they also have strategies geared towards maximally destroying small countries or non state actors occupying country sized territory. For example having A-10 size drones carrying tons of smaller guided submunitions, those are capabilities Israel and Russia doesn't have and are explicitly anti-third world countries/non state actors.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I think the AR will proceed in 3 distinct stages:
1. Annexation of Kinmen and surrounding areas.
2. Capture of Penghu and nearby islands.
3. Liberation of Taiwan.

Each stage can be used as an escalation step in response to US/TW provocation. I believe the annexation of Kinmen can be accomplished without or almost without bloodshed, as the local population is already pro-Beijing. The annexation does not need to be followed immediately by AR, as China can afford to wait and see.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
all they did are fighting just like poor nation , entirely depend on bombarment first then infantry and armor spear head with bare minimum direct instant call-in fire support =))

what i talk about is the ability to offer real time instant fire support for your assault task force (max 5 miniute waiting time)

that the thing make superpower military stand out in fight

poor military bombarment first then infantry/armor assault > if shit still too hot > retreat and wait half a fking day for another bombarment > repeat the process .....very ineffective way of fighting

superpower rich military bombarment then infantry/armor assault > if shit still too hot > radio call-in fire support > shit tons of fire balls coming in less than 5 minute wait > problem remove >infantry/armor come in finish off whatever left > keep on advance

easy to understand now ? russian never able to do that kind of fighting in ukraine till today that the reason the war turn into a fking grind feast for years
PLA is already using Target-Centric Warfare as it's operational system and has actually been working on this since a long time ago.

RAND's paper:
From Vanguard-2011 exercise at the Queshan
test range:
The exercise involved long-distance
maneuvers and an airborne offensive in mountainous terrain to seize “strategic points,” including an airfield. The exercise explored real-time target reconnaissance, command methods and planning, the integrated employment of army strike forces, and the coordinated use of ground and air firepower (Sang, Weikuan, and Xihe, 2011; Zhang and Xihe, 2011)
One of Vanguard-2011’s most interesting train-
ing objectives included the use of a new “battlefield intelligence report process and analysis system” that generated a target list. The system, which contained target types, numbers, and characteristics, was used to grade targets using indices that calibrated the required level of destruction and likelihood of casualties (Sang, Weikuan, and Xihe 2011; Zhang and Xihe,
2011). In addition, the system provided commanders with a decision making aid that allowed them to identify and calculate the tasks and attack capabilities required for achieving operational objectives.


The first of the two exercises, Joint-2012, emphasized information acquisition, target, planning and selection, force application, precisions strike, and effects assessment as core elements of the TCW concept; and, two months later, Penglai-2012 explored system-of-systems operations in more deptht through a joint operations scenario with maritime operations involving “combined battalions and shore
defense operations by reinforced coastal defense
companies” (Ma and Xihe, 2012). Most notably, the "battlefield intelligence report process and analysis system” appears to have been used again along with a “combat target checklist” (Ma and Xihe, 2012). Commanders used these tools to grade targets, set damage criteria, perform calculations for strike missions, and transmit messages to fire strike terminals.


Definition:
TCW places a premium on information-sharing,
delegated decisionmaking, and adaptable units
capable of working in new environments using “new type operational forces” (Zhang and Zhao, 2010). The TCW operational systems consist of five core operational subsystems, all of which were tested during the PLA’s experimentation program: (1) an information support system, (2) an early warning and reconnaissance system, (3) a real-time C2 system, (4) an integrated offensive and defensive force system, and (5) an integrated support system (Dong, 2015).

Full paper(link to pdf):
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GulfLander

Captain
Registered Member
I think the AR will proceed in 3 distinct stages:
1. Annexation of Kinmen and surrounding areas.
2. Capture of Penghu and nearby islands.
3. Liberation of Taiwan.

Each stage can be used as an escalation step in response to US/TW provocation. I believe the annexation of Kinmen can be accomplished without or almost without bloodshed, as the local population is already pro-Beijing. The annexation does not need to be followed immediately by AR, as China can afford to wait and see.
Do they still need annexation? When UN/members already recognized Taiwan as theirs?
 

Lime

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think the AR will proceed in 3 distinct stages:
1. Annexation of Kinmen and surrounding areas.
2. Capture of Penghu and nearby islands.
3. Liberation of Taiwan.

Each stage can be used as an escalation step in response to US/TW provocation. I believe the annexation of Kinmen can be accomplished without or almost without bloodshed, as the local population is already pro-Beijing. The annexation does not need to be followed immediately by AR, as China can afford to wait and see.
never, they will liberate the main island directly and swiftly.
 
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