PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

Biscuits said:

What the fuck are you talking about?

All nations with somewhat "complete" military rosters (meaning army, air force, IADS, rocket force) fight with pretty much the same overarching doctrine ever since Vietnam war. This is true for China, US, Russia and even Israel alike. The doctrine is to spam as much munitions as sustainable while using "networked targeting" to find the enemies, it's a live process that goes on every moment.

The most advanced nations like China, possibly US (and Russia in the border territories where they recieve international support) do not need to rely on infantry manually engaging the enemy first and then call on fire support like Donbass front Russia, Israel or US in the Vietnam war. They can have live surveillance of the enemy using satellites and drones, identify the weak points and support an infantry assault with heavy fires from beginning to end.

The ranking of strength comes from how much munitions a nation can sustain, salvo math.

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lmao if russian military can actually do that , then their will go around show off their massive k/d ratio scoreboard right now =))

all they did are fighting just like poor nation , entirely depend on bombarment first then infantry and armor spear head with bare minimum direct instant call-in fire support =))

what i talk about is the ability to offer real time instant fire support for your assault task force (max 5 miniute waiting time)

that the thing make superpower military stand out in fight

poor military bombarment first then infantry/armor assault > if shit still too hot > retreat and wait half a fking day for another bombarment > repeat the process .....very ineffective way of fighting

superpower rich military bombarment then infantry/armor assault > if shit still too hot > radio call-in fire support > shit tons of fire balls coming in less than 5 minute wait > problem remove >infantry/armor come in finish off whatever left > keep on advance

easy to understand now ? russian never able to do that kind of fighting in ukraine till today that the reason the war turn into a fking grind feast for years

HardBall said:

I mean, in this planning scenario, you are trying to minimize the cost and human resources to achieve the goal. And even more importantly, minimize the amount of time that is needed to achieve an irreversible outcome, that any outside interventions cannot undo. So doing everything you can would be of paramount importance to cut that process as short as possible, by using every advantage you potentially have.

Who cares if some people on social media or some western analyst calls you "backward" or "imitator" or whatever, after the fact. It doesn't mean that they are right. At the end of the day, achieving the desired outcome is what matters in the long run.

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opps alot of people care , why do you think first guft war shock entire china grovernment and military ?
and the shit show grind feast russian did in ukraine not ?

do you think US can have the fame and the love they had today if they fight the gulf war poorly like russian did in ukraine ?

the fight to take taiwan is similar as gulf war 1 , ukraine : first time a supposed to be superpower nation seriously launch a war .

entire world will watch how PLA perform specially the k/d ratio and war vehicles (tank , aircraft , heli , warship) combat loss .

now tell me how china grovernment and it citizen want the world to see ? a giant dragon wake up after long sleep easily crush it prey come out victory with huge positive scoreboard , bare minimum loss just like US did after gulf war

or a wannabe superpower tried so hard to be cool and end up with grind feast uncertain pyrrhic victory at best ?

votran said:

lmao if russian military can actually do that , then their will go around show off their massive k/d ratio scoreboard right now =))

opps alot of people care , why do you think first guft war shock entire china grovernment and military ?
and the shit show grind feast russian did in ukraine not ?

do you think US can have the fame and the love they had today if they fight the gulf war poorly like russian did in ukraine ?

the fight to take taiwan is similar as gulf war 1 , ukraine : first time a supposed to be superpower nation seriously launch a war .

entire world will watch how PLA perform specially the k/d ratio and war vehicles (tank , aircraft , heli , warship) combat loss .

now tell me how china grovernment and it citizen want the world to see ? a giant dragon wake up after long sleep easily crush it prey come out victory with huge positive scoreboard , bare minimum loss just like US did after gulf war

or a wannabe superpower tried so hard to be cool and end up with grind feast uncertain pyrrhic victory at best ?

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Why do you constantly worry about random people think, rather than what you actually accomplish on the battlefield?

That's actually one of the most sure fire ways to lose in the end, as a military planner.

votran said:

lmao if russian military can actually do that , then their will go around show off their massive k/d ratio scoreboard right now =))

opps alot of people care , why do you think first guft war shock entire china grovernment and military ?
and the shit show grind feast russian did in ukraine not ?

do you think US can have the fame and the love they had today if they fight the gulf war poorly like russian did in ukraine ?

the fight to take taiwan is similar as gulf war 1 , ukraine : first time a supposed to be superpower nation seriously launch a war .

entire world will watch how PLA perform specially the k/d ratio and war vehicles (tank , aircraft , heli , warship) combat loss .

now tell me how china grovernment and it citizen want the world to see ? a giant dragon wake up after long sleep easily crush it prey come out victory with huge positive scoreboard , bare minimum loss just like US did after gulf war

or a wannabe superpower tried so hard to be cool and end up with grind feast uncertain pyrrhic victory at best ?

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I think I understand what you mean, you think China as a superpower should not fight wars like the so-called poor and backward countries, right?
But the thing is, that's basically how the world's major powers fight wars today, and even when fighting smaller countries, sacrifices are basically unavoidable, and it's hard to have the kind of wars you're expecting to exist, especially at no cost in human lives. It's basically impossible. Just because your country, the army, has the advantage in every way, doesn't mean that victory in a war will be within reach, it's not the same thing. Whether it's Ukraine for Russia or Afghanistan for the US.
Also, the Gulf War was never really a good example, whether it was Vietnam in the last century, or Afghanistan in this century, the US military ultimately failed, and if you compare more examples, you'll see that the Gulf War was a special case.

GOODTREE said:

I think I understand what you mean, you think China as a superpower should not fight wars like the so-called poor and backward countries, right?
But the thing is, that's basically how the world's major powers fight wars today, and even when fighting smaller countries, sacrifices are basically unavoidable, and it's hard to have the kind of wars you're expecting to exist, especially at no cost in human lives. It's basically impossible. Just because your country, the army, has the advantage in every way, doesn't mean that victory in a war will be within reach, it's not the same thing. Whether it's Ukraine for Russia or Afghanistan for the US.
Also, the Gulf War was never really a good example, whether it was Vietnam in the last century, or Afghanistan in this century, the US military ultimately failed, and if you compare more examples, you'll see that the Gulf War was a special case.

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i don't talk about the war again US/allied gangs if they join in , im talking about the invasion of taiwan again taiwanese defense force alone

the phase where PLA marine fight again taiwanese force alone

i do not wish to see another 2022 early ukraine phase shit show where attacking force need to hide from defense force artillery bombarment , machine gun nest , sniper , ATGM and so on

and relied on infantry/armor bravery and fking sacrifices to overcome every single enemy hold out

if you see the map : between china and taiwan stand quite a few group of island in the middile : perfectly suitable to set up bunch of forward fire support base cover entire taiwan landscape

with that perfect battlefield conditions i expect PLA assault task force do much better than just the standard fighting style of many poor nations

votran said:

lmao if russian military can actually do that , then their will go around show off their massive k/d ratio scoreboard right now =))

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That's what they're doing? I'm sure Putin doesn't miss a chance to brag about how many he's denazified when he's asking for Chinese funding. And it works, going ~50 000 to ~800 000-1 mil is a compelling argument that Xi should continue to carte blanche Russia with infinite resources. To the point Russia got boosted to no4 economy from the sheer amount of grants they get showered with due to Ukraine war.

votran said:

opps alot of people care , why do you think first guft war shock entire china grovernment and military ?

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lol what???

Why would China ever give 2 shits about an US colony with nearly no weapons even or coherent national agenda infighting with US?

China didn't even care enough to issue mock outrage.

votran said:

and the shit show grind feast russian did in ukraine not ?

do you think US can have the fame and the love they had today if they fight the gulf war poorly like russian did in ukraine ?

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Well yeah, because they fought even worse in Vietnam. Big wars take time, gulf "war" was not a big war.

votran said:

the fight to take taiwan is similar as gulf war 1 , ukraine : first time a supposed to be superpower nation seriously launch a war .

entire world will watch how PLA perform specially the k/d ratio and war vehicles (tank , aircraft , heli , warship) combat loss .

now tell me how china grovernment and it citizen want the world to see ? a giant wake up after long sleep easily crush it prey come out victory with huge positive scoreboard , very minimum loss just like US did after gulf war

or a wannabe superpower tried so hard to be cool and end up with grind feat uncertain pyrrhic victory at best ?

Click to expand...

If US attacks China, it's not gonna be a small easy war like gulf war or Xinjiang campaign. As the aggressors, US might indeed take more losses, even much more like 5:1 as you hope, but its not guaranteed.

Either way, as long as China repels the US invasion, even with only slightly superior loss ratio, it will still cement China as the dominant superpower. And if US suceeds in a conventional invasion despite China having a larger economy, industry, tech scene and tyranny of distance working against US, that's pure tactical genius from US and/or tactical retardation from China. If that happens, China can still peace out with its territory including Taiwan intact using nuclear blackmail. And afterwards, the people of China will get rid of all the incompetents in the Chinese govt, put 100% of the nation in the military and then come back for round 2.

But honestly the type of people who built the strongest country in the world and continues to win with every major global crisis arent the type of people who will lose a war against a smaller opponent on home turf, so I don't see any chance of scenario 2 happening.

votran said:

i do not wish to see another 2022 early ukraine phase shit show where attacking force need to hide from defense force artillery bombarment , machine gun nest , sniper , ATGM and so on

and relied on infantry/armor bravery and fking sacrifices to overcome every single enemy hold out

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But the problem is, if Taiwan does have them, then they have the opportunity to use them, and then the PLA ground forces will have to deal with them. How do you avoid them?

votran said:

i don't talk about the war again US/allied gangs if they join in , im talking about the invasion of taiwan again taiwanese defense force alone

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Yes, you're talking about China's war with Taiwan and then arguing that China has to hit super high KD ratios right? Then use the US Gulf War as an example. Sacrifices are unavoidable and the battlefield is not something you can fully grasp. War is not a game after all.
Yes, China may have a “high KD” ratio, but the Taiwanese are not the same to the Chinese as the Iraqis are to the Americans. Besides, China seeks to control Taiwan, not to drop a nuke and blow it up. That would indeed achieve the highest KD value.

Rubio: unless something drastic changes, the US "will have to deal with" China invading Taiwan before the end of this decade.


Timestamp 8:11 PT, along with some other points he made

Biscuits said:

That's what they're doing? I'm sure Putin doesn't miss a chance to brag about how many he's denazified when he's asking for Chinese funding. And it works, going ~50 000 to ~800 000-1 mil is a compelling argument that Xi should continue to carte blanche Russia with infinite resources. To the point Russia got boosted to no4 economy from the sheer amount of grants they get showered with due to Ukraine war.

lol what???

Why would China ever give 2 shits about an US colony with nearly no weapons even or coherent national agenda infighting with US?

China didn't even care enough to issue mock outrage.

Well yeah, because they fought even worse in Vietnam. Big wars take time, gulf "war" was not a big war.

If US attacks China, it's not gonna be a small easy war like gulf war or Xinjiang campaign. As the aggressors, US might indeed take more losses, even much more like 5:1 as you hope, but its not guaranteed.

Either way, as long as China repels the US invasion, even with only slightly superior loss ratio, it will still cement China as the dominant superpower. And if US suceeds in a conventional invasion despite China having a larger economy, industry, tech scene and tyranny of distance working against US, that's pure tactical genius from US and/or tactical retardation from China. If that happens, China can still peace out with its territory including Taiwan intact using nuclear blackmail. And afterwards, the people of China will get rid of all the incompetents in the Chinese govt, put 100% of the nation in the military and then come back for round 2.

But honestly the type of people who built the strongest country in the world and continues to win with every major global crisis arent the type of people who will lose a war against a smaller opponent on home turf, so I don't see any chance of scenario 2 happening.

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If I understand correctly, basically the question is whether China possess the combination of technology and command to be able to conduct a "shock and awe" type campaign against a much smaller and technologically inferior Taiwan. It's not really "caring" about what others think.

He said himself that the battle against the US is a whole different story.

Certainly one of the enablers of the US campaigns is the ISR resources. E3s, E8 JSTARS, Global Hawk, Predator/Reaper, E2, Satellite Intel, GPS, etc. We see that China has invested heavily in growing these same kinds of capabilities to the PLA, whereas Russia has not. The inventory of KJ-500 alone is more than the number of similar type of aircraft USSR ever produced. Same can be said for EW aircraft, Russia does not have a purpose built EW aircraft capable of flying into combat zones like J-16/J-15D and EF-18.

Another example is that Americans units had the ability to call in things like Predator strikes or support from things like Spectres and Apaches to dislodge entrenched enemies and advance rather than the kind of combat happening in Ukraine where there are large artillery duels like something out of WWI.