PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

About the fight against the US and China navy I tend to think that China would dominate, but I don't think is possible to assure it. If it would be a sure conclusion China would have already acted.
I am sure China views armed conflict as a last resort for resolving the Taiwan issue. From a cost benefit analysis, initiating reunification via military means does not make sense in the foreseeable future. The next decade is a critical time for Chinese economic development, and the repercussions of initiating armed reunification would result in severe negative economic consequences. As I mentioned, I believe it is the intention of the US to provoke China into launching AR in order to inflict the maximum amount of damage to China's economic development. Generally, it is not wise to do what your opponent wants you to do. Militarily, I believe currently China only holds the advantage within 3000km of the Chinese coasts. While the USN would be practically impotent in directly impacting the outcome of military operations against Taiwan, the USN can still cause very significant damage to China while staying far in excess of 3000km from the Chinese coast, ie through operations in the Indian Ocean. As of today, there is very little the PLA can do to counter USN operations at distances so far from the Chinese coast.
 
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Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Are there no competent military analysts in Taiwan that would realize US naval assets (outside of submarines, and even that is arguable) are unable to operate close enough to Taiwan to make any sort of impact whatsoever? US only wants to use Taiwan as a pawn to justify total economic, financial, and trade sanctions against China and isolate China internationally.
While US would like to parade some Israel like images from China to score humanitarian points, it wouldn't stop most of the world from staying dependent on China. They don't have ways to impact the Chinese economy significantly, and a cutoff from Chinese industry and resources would annihilate their living standards.

The reason US is threatening militarily now is imho due to the need to preserve stability at home.

They realized too late that they don't have any plans to surpass China economically or industrially. America has deluded their population into thinking they are the leader of the world, when in reality they have never defeated the other major powers. And now they see obviously that they are at insurmountable disadvantage.

Threats on Taiwan is their way of saying to their population "we are still here, we are still competitive, look, any moment now we can move the whole US military into them!".

There is a backfire though. Because if they commit too much, people will expect the performance US has bragged about. But they really don't have any way to break through China's defenses at all. So the long term options for America is to either fight and get wiped, or memory hole the whole idea of ever having claimed land in China.

And honestly looking at US track record, the latter seems 90% probable.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am sure China views armed conflict as a last resort for resolving the Taiwan issue. From a cost benefit analysis, initiating reunification via military means does not make sense at the current time.

I would argue that from a cost benefit analysis, it will likely never make sense for China to initiate a military reunification, even if China had complete military superiority over the US and given the likelihood is that there will be a political settlement.

But that's not to say a war can't happen.


The next decade is a critical time for Chinese economic development, and the repercussions of initiating armed reunification would have severe negative economic consequences. As I mentioned, I believe it is the intention of the US to provoke China into launching AR in order to cause the maximum amount of damage to China's economic development. Generally, it is not wise to do what your opponent wants you to do. Militarily, I believe China only holds the advantage within 3000km of the Chinese coasts. While the USN would be practically impotent in directly impacting the outcome of military operations against Taiwan, the USN can still cause very significant damage to China while staying far in excess of 3000km from the Chinese coast, ie through operations in the Indian Ocean. As of today, there is very little the PLA can do to counter USN operations at distances so far from the Chinese coast.
 
While US would like to parade some Israel like images from China to score humanitarian points, it wouldn't stop most of the world from staying dependent on China. They don't have ways to impact the Chinese economy significantly, and a cutoff from Chinese industry and resources would annihilate their living standards.

The reason US is threatening militarily now is imho due to the need to preserve stability at home.

They realized too late that they don't have any plans to surpass China economically or industrially. America has deluded their population into thinking they are the leader of the world, when in reality they have never defeated the other major powers. And now they see obviously that they are at insurmountable disadvantage.

Threats on Taiwan is their way of saying to their population "we are still here, we are still competitive, look, any moment now we can move the whole US military into them!".

There is a backfire though. Because if they commit too much, people will expect the performance US has bragged about. But they really don't have any way to break through China's defenses at all. So the long term options for America is to either fight and get wiped, or memory hole the whole idea of ever having claimed land in China.

And honestly looking at US track record, the latter seems 90% probable.
I hope you are correct, but I don't think the US will take the living standards of their vassals into consideration when weighed against the opportunity to curtail Chinese growth. The US didn't seem to care about the economic impact to Europe caused by the sanctions on Russia. Considering that the Chinese economy is growing much faster than the American economy, it would be in US's advantage even if Chinese economic growth and US economic growth were equally impacted. Internally, the US is not suffering from any abnormal levels of stability, hence I don't see how focusing attention on Taiwan can be due to maintaining domestic stability. On the other hand, I believe the US is very worried about increased economic competition from China, and that the US may use Taiwan as an excuse to carve up a large swathe of the world's markets as captive markets dependent solely on the US.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
I would argue that from a cost benefit analysis, it will likely never make sense for China to initiate a military reunification, even if China had complete military superiority over the US and given the likelihood is that there will be a political settlement.

But that's not to say a war can't happen.
War would happen if a megalomaniac and insane leader takes power in America, who will not care about unfavorable power balances and just wants to attack because they can. Which is not completely impossible.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
I hope you are correct, but I don't think the US will take the living standards of their vassals into consideration when weighed against the opportunity to curtail Chinese growth. The US didn't seem to care about the economic impact to Europe caused by the sanctions on Russia. Considering that the Chinese economy is growing much faster than the American economy, it would be in US's advantage even if Chinese economic growth and US economic growth were equally impacted.
Not really, if China keeps growing at 5% and US at 2%, and economic war tanks China to 3% and US to 0%, they're still not catching up any faster.

The bigger issue for them is that it's not a symmetric drop. Some 80% of the world's semiconductors are from China. Not to mention batteries, refined materials and so on. And the remaining portions come from SK and Japan, you can bet that China will cower them down with secondary sanctions because they're completely defenseless after US fled.

So at that point, China can just say: you don't get to make any cars or any advanced electronics at all. How is US going to compete with that?

Euros have nothing. Central America only has resources but no industry to refine it at feasible costs. You can't run a world class economy with just cheese, wine and Mexicans.
 
Not really, if China keeps growing at 5% and US at 2%, and economic war tanks China to 3% and US to 0%, they're still not catching up any faster.

The bigger issue for them is that it's not a symmetric drop. Some 80% of the world's semiconductors are from China. Not to mention batteries, refined materials and so on. And the remaining portions come from SK and Japan, you can bet that China will cower them down with secondary sanctions because they're completely defenseless after US fled.

So at that point, China can just say: you don't get to make any cars or any advanced electronics at all. How is US going to compete with that?

Euros have nothing. Central America only has resources but no industry to refine it at feasible costs. You can't run a world class economy with just cheese, wine and Mexicans.
The question is whether or not the US seriously believes industries in the US can be revived if foreign competition is eliminated. With regards to semiconductors, the US has sure been trying with the CHIPS act and the projects in Arizona. I don't see Japan deviating from the US led bloc, though SK would most likely flip.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
If it would be a sure conclusion China would have already acted.


That's a very wrong way of thinking. Would you fight right away someone you can beat, but in return have to stay in a hospital bed for a month, or would you rather wait and train some more until when you could beat him with some minimal damage, and a few bruises, and you don't have to wait in hospital at all? In both cases, you win, but the second option is still preferable. This is the analogy describing how they think. How many died, how much toll will there be on the economy, etc? As they are non-emotional technocrats, they can wait as long as humanly possible to achieve the most optimal and most efficient result. Sure conclusion =/= most efficient outcome. They passed a relative "sure conclusion" level of strength a long time ago, they are now looking to achieve a level where they could do it with the least possible fallout possible.


repercussions of initiating armed reunification would result in severe negative economic consequences.


That depends on the outcome. The US industry and society boomed post WW2 for example once they emerged victorious.

If the outcome is victorious for China, imagine the upside potential they would get economically and geopolitically in the following years after that.

Imagine the perception switch in the entire world once everyone realizes they are the world's new biggest superpower, not some kind of cheap factory of the world.

Many Chinese products have quality for example, but they lack the brand perception, that could rise from national strength perception, that's why they can't price it higher like the Western firms can and enjoy higher profit margins for essentially no reason.

I'm of a firm conviction that if the US loses, that would mean the collapse of that entire country itself, alongside the EU (the US is its sole reason for existence), and their economies, as well.

That leaves China to gobble up global market share for many industries the West dominated so far faster than before, get more orders, etc...

The short-term damage will be severe, but over time, I think that China will have reached its peak developmental goal faster.

There's also capital and high-quality human capital flying to your country from all over the world once you become that kind of a first superpower.



War would happen if a megalomaniac and insane leader takes power in America, who will not care about unfavorable power balances and just wants to attack because they can. Which is not completely impossible.


I think that by this point, it is the US mainstream course to initiate a war against China in both parties due to fear of its exponential rise. It is just that they can't launch it out of thin air. How would that look in the eyes of the domestic and international public?

That's why there needs to be years of creeping escalation and salami slicing before that, to slowly provoke China into a war, that is the whole use-case they have for Taiwan and the Philipines leaderships they control as they are unfit for actual fighting against China.


I would argue that from a cost benefit analysis, it will likely never make sense for China to initiate a military reunification, even if China had complete military superiority over the US and given the likelihood is that there will be a political settlement.


The likelihood of a political settlement is near zero if you look at actual data and trends observed in it as well as daily news. Why is it near zero? If it didn't happen in the last 70 years when people were much closer, it certainly won't happen in the future, in the next 70 years, when you have pro-unification voices in Taiwan decimated over time to a level of statistical error nearly, DPP taking power from KMT for 3 consecutive terms already, and rising "Taiwanese" ethnic identity in polling, etc. Political settlement would happen only if the US disintegrated on its own one day.
 
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coolgod

Brigadier
Registered Member
If China doesn't hold Taiwan, then who will? We took it originally from the Netherlands ages ago, and the Dutch have never asked for reparations or claimed it back. Nazi Japan used it as a springboard during its war with China, obviously all it's claims are 1000% invalidated due to being inhuman monsters and defeated by China, same reason Russia isn't about to award Moscowy and France isn't about to award the historical nazi German occupations back to Germany.
What the **** kind of propaganda is this? Why is this brand new member putting out braindead takes comparing China to Nazi Japan? As if China's claim to Taiwan was somehow in anyway comparable to that of Japan's.

We took it originally from the Netherlands ages ago
Sun Quan (yes that Sun Quan) says hello? Taiwan has always been inhabited by Chinese people since time immortal, we have evidence it was first administered by what we commonly refer to as China back in 230 C.E. GTFO with your Netherlands discovered Taiwan shit.

Why are we debating with people like this in the PLA strategy thread?
 
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Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
What the **** kind of propaganda is this? Why is this brand new member putting out braindead takes comparing China to Nazi Japan? As if China's claim to Taiwan was somehow in anyway comparable to that of Japan's.
What level of reading comprehension is this?

I said China defeated Japan, and also that Japan laid claim to Taiwan in the past, hence the claim of Japan is invalidated because nazist scum that already surrendered to China can't take back their surrenders, unless they want to start a new war.

Is any of that untrue according to you.
 
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