PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
You just gotta give it to at least some of them for trying to cure their *ahem* on their own:

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B1tch, we already done that N years ago with the PLA:

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Do they not have access to english news?
Every day they are peeing their pants about "unsafe intercepts" and embedding those reporters on ships and planes
Even in Canada they are copying the American messaging the same way
"LOOK AT HOW CLOSE THEY ARE GETTING! THEY SHOULDN'T DO THAT, IT'S MEAN!"
"WE COME IN PEACE, YES, WARSHIPS STATIONED A WHOLE OCEAN AWAY AND ARMED TO THE TEETH AROUND YOUR BACKYARD, BUT DEFINITELY PEACE"
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I don't pretend to be expert and I am happy to accept critic to my comments. But the expression we don't live in time of WWII was paternalistic.

On the other hand, the situation I have described has really happened in the Ukranian war. Air defenses operating in passive mode to remain hidden until a plane shows up.

As crazy as it may look there were actual reports of how in the cloudy days russians aircraft could be more active due to Ukranians unable to spot them

And specially before the introduction of the glide bombs by Russia, its planes needed to fly low to drop bombs with some precision so it was even easier to spot them.

However, I totally accept the point that Taiwan size is much smaller than Ukraine, and it is an island. So for chinese planes will be much easier.

It was simply a comment of the kind of strategy that taiwanese will employ. Their objective will not be to win, or even maximize survival but to inflict as much damage to chinese air force and army

I also myself want to apologise, that please don’t be paternalistic was aggressive.
Anyway level of comments here is very high, I am happy to interact and read you!!

Fair comments, but the main thing to keep in mind is that Ukraine is a really really bad example because of how many unique and frankly stupid things that are happening over there.

The Russians using 4th gen fighters to drop iron bombs would be a classic example that will not be repeated anywhere else by a top modern military.

Also, Ukraine has the unique advantage of having NATO ISR plugged directly into their kill chains. Which is the fundamental reason their Air Defences have been so effective in the war. That makes SEAD impossible for the Russians without going directly after said NATO ISR, which means they can only do DEAD, which is an order of magnitude more difficult. To give an idea of just how big of a jump that is, DEAD is actually something the US and allies never even managed to achieve during any of their wars despite the overwhelming dominance they enjoyed and total air superiority.

That won’t be the case in any fight for Taiwan, which is why people scoff when you use Ukraine as an example.

The closest example of how a fight for Taiwan is likely to go would be the bombing campaign against the former Yugoslavia, but even more one sided.

With direct US involvement in the war, it would just be suicide with extra steps for Taiwan to resist. That is why the most likely scenario in the event of a US no-show after armed reunification starts is a military coup within Taiwan followed swiftly by unconditional surrender. Because if you are the RoC military, would you rather be live target dummies for the PLA or turn on the politicians who made you said live target dummy?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I honestly have no idea what 92m long is relative to other Chinese coast guard ships.
The 92m long came from this news
Basically 056 sized. Not so big for us (
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), especially cus we have the biggest coast guard cutters in the world but way bigger than they'd dare mess with.
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Taiwan claim there was "physical contact" between the boats but there is no footage.
Looks like this tragedy isn't dying down anytime soon.
I was previously led to believe that the ship capsized due to its own maneuvers. If it was rammed (what do the 2 survivors say happened?), then I would really want to see this incident blown up much more. At the very least, clusterfuck the areas around Kinmen and Matsu with fishing vessels guarded by our coast guard and potentially navy so they just give up patrolling them permanently. If their coast guard even dares show up I'd say surround them, board them, and seize them. Play a joke; send a seemingly lone and confused fishing boat near Taiwan proper that does not respond to communication or leave the area when told. When their coast guard tries to board it, have there be like 150 armed fighters hidden inside to reverse-board them and take their cutter (it'd be sweet if we took either the Yilan or Kaohsiung vessels). If the operators of their coast guard vessel that caused the collision can be found, they should be on trial for murder in the Mainland and given either life imprisonment or the death penalty. Of course, that's just what I want to see. The CCP decides what we are ready and positioned to do.
 
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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I don't pretend to be expert and I am happy to accept critic to my comments. But the expression we don't live in time of WWII was paternalistic.

On the other hand, the situation I have described has really happened in the Ukranian war. Air defenses operating in passive mode to remain hidden until a plane shows up.

As crazy as it may look there were actual reports of how in the cloudy days russians aircraft could be more active due to Ukranians unable to spot them

And specially before the introduction of the glide bombs by Russia, its planes needed to fly low to drop bombs with some precision so it was even easier to spot them.

You explained yourself why Russian planes fly more on cloudy days because they are dropping iron bombs and unguided rockets. PLAAF doesn't have the lack of standoff munitions problem like the Russian air force does.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Also, Ukraine has the unique advantage of having NATO ISR plugged directly into their kill chains. Which is the fundamental reason their Air Defences have been so effective in the war. That makes SEAD impossible for the Russians without going directly after said NATO ISR, which means they can only do DEAD, which is an order of magnitude more difficult. To give an idea of just how big of a jump that is, DEAD is actually something the US and allies never even managed to achieve during any of their wars despite the overwhelming dominance they enjoyed and total air superiority.

This is why i said PLA needs to take out all foreign ISR assets in theatre in Civil War 2.0
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
Fair comments, but the main thing to keep in mind is that Ukraine is a really really bad example because of how many unique and frankly stupid things that are happening over there.

The Russians using 4th gen fighters to drop iron bombs would be a classic example that will not be repeated anywhere else by a top modern military.

Also, Ukraine has the unique advantage of having NATO ISR plugged directly into their kill chains. Which is the fundamental reason their Air Defences have been so effective in the war. That makes SEAD impossible for the Russians without going directly after said NATO ISR, which means they can only do DEAD, which is an order of magnitude more difficult. To give an idea of just how big of a jump that is, DEAD is actually something the US and allies never even managed to achieve during any of their wars despite the overwhelming dominance they enjoyed and total air superiority.

That won’t be the case in any fight for Taiwan, which is why people scoff when you use Ukraine as an example.

The closest example of how a fight for Taiwan is likely to go would be the bombing campaign against the former Yugoslavia, but even more one sided.

With direct US involvement in the war, it would just be suicide with extra steps for Taiwan to resist. That is why the most likely scenario in the event of a US no-show after armed reunification starts is a military coup within Taiwan followed swiftly by unconditional surrender. Because if you are the RoC military, would you rather be live target dummies for the PLA or turn on the politicians who made you said live target dummy?
Thank you very much for your explanations, I see the difference between the conflicts now.

Maybe can I ask why NATO ISR will not be applicable in Taiwan?
Cant AEW planes just fly in the ocean helped by tankers as they are doing currently in Poland and Romania?

Or it is assumed than in case of conflict China would shot them?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier

Taiwanese ZJ or Secret comrade?:eek:
Everybody's like, "They wanna board us? Let them. We haven't got anything to hide on the ship, have we?" LOL Really not aggressive people... except that one girl at 1:01 who looks like she got hit in the face with a frying pan. She's basically had it with life. She's like, "War to the death. Get it over quickly, I just wanna get it over with. It's fine if lots of people die." Scary thing is she said it as nonchalantly as someone deciding between a frozen tv dinner or a cup of 3 minute ramen. Probably figured dead people all look the same underground so nobody'll ever call her the pugsy chick again LOL
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Thank you very much for your explanations, I see the difference between the conflicts now.

Maybe can I ask why NATO ISR will not be applicable in Taiwan?
Cant AEW planes just fly in the ocean helped by tankers as they are doing currently in Poland and Romania?

Or it is assumed than in case of conflict China would shot them?

If the US directly enters the war, they won’t be able to fly their ISR planes anywhere near China without getting shot down. If the US does not directly intervene, the fight will be over before it began.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
This is why i said PLA needs to take out all foreign ISR assets in theatre in Civil War 2.0

Firstly, Civil War 2.0 is America, since their first one formally ended. For China, AR would be Civil War Part 2.

Secondly, this whole Ukrainian scenario will naturally never develop because one of China’s primary opening stage strategic objectives would be to force America to show its cards.

China will be 99% certain what America’s choice will be before AR kicks off, but it’s still critically important for China to force America to openly declare its play right from the offset, as China will not allow America to play for time by sitting on the fence while building up its forces for attack in safety.

If America chickens out, AR will be over before it begins, potentially even becoming Peaceful Reunification (PR). If America dares to step up and take a swing, it won’t have bases or ISR platforms left within sensor range of Taiwan for it to matter.
 
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