PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

lcloo

Captain
Lol why would China need to "wait" until 2035? For what?

What will happen entirely up to what direction the negotiations between Beijing and the KMT will take. I think we all prefer solutions that don't spill blood, but that is also up to the KMT itself.
I think you may need to change KMT to somrthing else, like Taiwan regime. KMT has been out of power since 2016. KMT has less problem with CPC and both are friendly to each other, DPP which is Taiwan government is the one making troubles.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I think you may need to change KMT to somrthing else, like Taiwan regime. KMT has been out of power since 2016. KMT has less problem with CPC and both are friendly to each other, DPP which is Taiwan government is the one making troubles.
It's the same general organization no matter who leads it at the moment, I just try to keep it simple :/

The fighters operate under flag of KMT.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
That is a nice way to put it. To be even more confident I say wait until China PPP reaches 2x that of US. 2035 is my bet.
At this point I don't think China is ready yet. It takes time to get familiarize with the new equipment and training is time consuming.

Yeah, but the structure of the GDP PPP matters too. America's is 80% structurally services, completely useless for any kind of war economy.

In terms of the real economy and industrial size, China is already many times above the US (10 times steel production in 2022 - example).


We are at late stage of number 2 right now. Still need to rid of the US debts, dedollarize.


I think that it's even better for China not to get rid of the US debt and currency before the war starts. The more it has, the more damage it can cause by creating a worldwide dumping avalanche effect.

And even if it wanted, its CB can't get rid of the dollars and US bonds completely as long as the US is its largest trade partner and market and the dollar is a global currency due to trade mechanics.

It can only try and reduce the holdings to the maximum, which it has already doing for quite some time, and maybe increase the gold holdings (already the greatest in the entire world).

Also, domestic savings rates (in yuan) are the highest in the world in all categories and the government can easily tap into that for war efforts due to how much power and trust it has.

So, it doesn't matter that they will lose so much value in dollar and US bond holdings when they already have the highest gold reserves and domestic savings rates in the whole world.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



It doesn't matter that China can't reduce the exposure completely before the war, as I will explain, it's even better to hold as much as possible when the war starts, it's not a negative, it is a positive. It will allow China to economically demolish the US. This is the economic nuclear bomb.

For example, let's take Russia for example, I think it went even better for them that their 300 billion of central reserves got stolen.

In that way, the West consciously or unconsciously launched an entire long-term wave of de-dollarization around the world, showing their hypocritical faces.

It paved the way for the localization of trade currency use nowadays and mechanisms allowing for potential future easier complete switching off from the Western financial system.

But, imagine if the war starts, and China + HK (the largest US creditor) and dollar holders start dumping their currencies and bonds on the world market right away.

Imagine then the rest of the world following the selling and dumping due to the diversification and fear, and the hyperinflation started in the US.

(if no one buys their bonds, they have to fill their trillions-strong deficit with money printing and hence cause hyperinflation, because the world is dumping dollars too as well).

China's willingness to sell 1 trillion of something certainly wouldn't be a small thing and it would cause an earthquake in international markets. Even if no one buys it, the dumping intention would ensure that the US can't raise any more debt for the war.

Then you add that to the sociological situation I described in the US a few pages ago, and you have a civil war inside the US.

The same logic follows for Chinese exports in the US - it is smart not to diversify, before taking Taiwan, because most of the damage can be dealt with in that way.

Up to 1 trillion of debt dumped, no one else started buying, and the US depends on foreign debt to survive due to deficits, especially in a case of war, 600 billion imports from China lost, empty shelves - supply side hyperinflation, even more hyperinflation due to trillions of dollar dumpings and hence exchange rates worsening, etc...

The US is like a drug addict, they are completely dependent on China economically (biggest creditor, currency bag holder, provider of real goods), whom they constantly provoke and want to go to war with. And all that with worse societal divisions and the shittiest social situation in the whole world. Perfect conditions for the civil war and collapse of the country.

Economically and sociologically China is already 100% ready for war, tens of times better prepared than the US, and militarily it's ready in my opinion too (if you factor in short-term possible industrial might and home terrain advantages).

But there is always a fog of war involved in those types of WW3 scenarios, that's why the Chinese government wants to be 200% safe, not 100%.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think Taiwan problem has 3 stages of strategic considerations:
  1. Can China win? (Yes)
  2. Can China win without heavy cost? (We are almost past this)
  3. Can China win without opportunity cost? (Not yet, but less than 10 years away)
We are at late stage of number 2 right now. Still need to rid of the US debts, dedollarize. Military wise China is almost ready. Just need a moment of US vulnerability so it wont directly enter.

Stage 3 is an issue. China is in middle of wrestling away US as global leader. In middle of growing high tech export. Starting a war now give initiative back to US temporarily. China need to deindustrialize opponents one last time at automobile and electronics, before commiting.
yes the Chinese leadership has indeed progressed from 1 being the main concern to now having the luxury of worrying about 3. the opportunity cost is a lot more than just foreign sanctions. I do agree that China is closing in to the point where it becomes un-sanctionable, but not there quite yet. but on top of trade implications (which i think is actually quite minute), the socio-political effect will also be quite substantial.

yes a victory on Taiwan will enhance support for CCP, but will this rally around the flag effect also relieve the pressure for reform, under the guise of focusing on the war effort? we have seen China putting off certain reforms due to covid, then play catch up later (reform of the medical field would be an example). so in Xi's mind, there is either "reform first, then solve the Taiwan issue" or "take Taiwan, then use the newly acquired political capital to carry out further reform". I am inclined to say that he prefers the former, and taking Taiwan will have the effect of solidifying his place as the prominent leader after Mao and Deng, which in turn reinforces his reform and prevents the bureaucracy from undoing them once he is gone.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
So I just came back from a trip to see relatives in the south of Taiwan, which is the centre of pan green and Taiwan independence movement.
A few things to note:
  • Military drills have become more frequent in the past few years, compared to pre Covid.
  • Worsening attitudes by pan green supporters against Taiwanese who support CPC or KMT, think the brainwashing that the west did to Ukraine pre 2014 and up to 2022 war. I have seen at least one family split apart by the media propaganda by the anglos in Taiwan media.
  • Heightened general anxiety over possible conflict ie Armed Reunification under the veneer of ppl going about their business.
  • As I’ve said before, the island is stuck in a time warp, where hardcore DPP types have not moved on from 2003.

The animosity of the DPP pan green types who are akin to the Azov types in Ukraine towards not just the CPC but also to the KMT because of White Terror and past massacres and wrongs, renders them vulnerable to Anglo propaganda. These people are still our Chinese brethren and all efforts should be pursued to win them over, not by targeting them, but by going after the true instigators, the American occupation of east Asia.

Winning the peace afterwards means showing mercy and leniency towards wayward Chinese brethren, otherwise you’ll have another generation reliving the generational trauma of another KMT style “white terror”.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
I am confident of US military can make sober decision on Taiwan. It is the domestic government I worry. If US let Taiwan go after staking much of domestic credibility on it, internal chaos will happen. To some civilian leaders fighting a losing war might be preferable to domestic unrest. Once the war is lost, their term is over anyway.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
I am confident of US military can make sober decision on Taiwan. It is the domestic government I worry. If US let Taiwan go after staking much of domestic credibility on it, internal chaos will happen. To some civilian leaders fighting a losing war might be preferable to domestic unrest. Once the war is lost, their term is over anyway.
I thought so too until they allowed the likes of Pompeo and Bannon into power
 

montyp165

Senior Member
I thought so too until they allowed the likes of Pompeo and Bannon into power
It's why if the US political establishment does push for war the consequences for them have to be such that they would never ever be in a position to threaten others again, otherwise they'll be like the Nazis in pushing for more conflict.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
So I just came back from a trip to see relatives in the south of Taiwan, which is the centre of pan green and Taiwan independence movement.
A few things to note:
  • Military drills have become more frequent in the past few years, compared to pre Covid.
  • Worsening attitudes by pan green supporters against Taiwanese who support CPC or KMT, think the brainwashing that the west did to Ukraine pre 2014 and up to 2022 war. I have seen at least one family split apart by the media propaganda by the anglos in Taiwan media.
  • Heightened general anxiety over possible conflict ie Armed Reunification under the veneer of ppl going about their business.
  • As I’ve said before, the island is stuck in a time warp, where hardcore DPP types have not moved on from 2003.

The animosity of the DPP pan green types who are akin to the Azov types in Ukraine towards not just the CPC but also to the KMT because of White Terror and past massacres and wrongs, renders them vulnerable to Anglo propaganda. These people are still opur Chinese brethren and all efforts should be pursued to win them over, not by targeting them, but by going after the true instigators, the American occupation of east Asia.

Winning the peace afterwards means showing mercy and leniency towards wayward Chinese brethren, otherwise you’ll have another generation reliving the generational trauma of another KMT style “white terror”.
China needs a few years to demonstrate that the Hong Kong option is a lot better than the Ukraine option. That should increase probability to surrender or accept that independence is impossible

It's also necessary to demonstrate that life in China is good. Overtaking the US in nominal GDP is one aspect of that. People on Kinmen can see that directly, on Taiwan they can't. So Chinese successes in space exploration can help get it into the newspapers that China is a more advanced country now and that betting on the US to win is not smart. Producing better semiconductors than TSMC, a company everyone on the island should know about, will demonstrate that as well

But for anyone unwilling to peacefully accept the situation after a reunification war, reeducation is the only option. Send them to the mainland and give them some education for a year. It has worked quite well in Xinjiang. Combined with migration from the mainland to Taiwan there should be no long term issues

The only question is how to restore central government control
 
Top