PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Are there any estimates of potential Chinese war material production, for example if war becomes 15% of the country's GDP? The current production rate is nowhere near what it would be if WW3 breaks out.
Well based on napkin maths, China produced and sold 17.5 million motorcycles in 2022. If even 10% was able to be converted to suicide UAVs ala shaheds you're already capable of blanketing the skies with them.

Considering how fast electric car factories capable of manufacturing hundreds of thousands of cars are built, it really doesn't take much to move to a war economy for general military goods, when dealing with Chinese numbers even a slow ramp up can look absurd to everyone else.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Well based on napkin maths, China produced and sold 17.5 million motorcycles in 2022. If even 10% was able to be converted to suicide UAVs ala shaheds you're already capable of blanketing the skies with them.

Considering how fast electric car factories capable of manufacturing hundreds of thousands of cars are built, it really doesn't take much to move to a war economy for general military goods, when dealing with Chinese numbers even a slow ramp up can look absurd to everyone else.
No need to switch to the war economy if the Chinese government starts to build them now. If one of the defense companies set up the supply chain and an automatic assembly line that can produce ten thousand cheap long range piston-base missiles (minus the warhead to make storing them easier) per month, PLA will have hundreds of thousands of them in a few years. PLA can store them in any cheap warehouse because they don’t have explosive warheads.

PLA can maintain maybe ten thousand warheads and place them in munition storage facilities.

Maybe a year or so before the breakout, PLA can start to increase the missile production and really scale up the production of warheads. By the time hostilities starts, PLA will have enough missiles to turn South Korea, Japan, Taiwan Island and the Philippines back to stone ages.
 

aqh

Junior Member
Registered Member
If China is able to get rid of US and Jp presence within the first island chain isn't that all they need for Taiwan? Even if the US shoot in the the second Island Chain with impunity they will be shooting extremely long ranged munitions which they won't have in suitable numbers to stop AR.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
No need to switch to the war economy if the Chinese government starts to build them now. If one of the defense companies set up the supply chain and an automatic assembly line that can produce ten thousand cheap long range piston-base missiles (minus the warhead to make storing them easier) per month, PLA will have hundreds of thousands of them in a few years. PLA can store them in any cheap warehouse because they don’t have explosive warheads.

PLA can maintain maybe ten thousand warheads and place them in munition storage facilities.

Maybe a year or so before the breakout, PLA can start to increase the missile production and really scale up the production of warheads. By the time hostilities starts, PLA will have enough missiles to turn South Korea, Japan, Taiwan Island and the Philippines back to stone ages.

This, I believe, is the core reason why the US is so paranoid about China providing lethal assistance to Russia.

It’s pretty obvious by now that one of the original wet dream core objectives behind the whole Ukraine idiocy from Washington’s POV was to essentially do start transitioning the US to war economy in stealth, under the guise of military assistance to Ukraine to attempt to not trip too many alarm bells in Beijing.

Russia was supposed to crumble and fold, but not before the war hogties they EU to America’s boot and forces them to modernise their own armed forces (preferably with newly built American gear). So after a few years of Slavics killing each other by the thousands, Russia is supposed to be exhausted and/or regime changed and effectively off the board, allowing the US and their newly refreshed European allies to focus building a NATO of Asia (which can now be supplied by a rejuvenated American war economy capable of producing vast amounts of weapons and munitions) to focus fire on China.

Reality is going a little differently to say the least, and the most hilarious part is China managed to checkmate this entire elaborate plan with one simple move - export control on gallium. What good is a vast new production base if you don’t have the core raw ingredients to feed into it?

Notice China’s shrewd planning and patience in the timing. It didn’t knee-jerk the move immediately, it patiently waited a year for the US to deplete significant proportions of its munitions supply and invest heavily in new manufacturing capacities before pulling the rug out from under it all after all those costs have been sunk and resources expended. I would not be at all surprised if China deliberately slowed (but not stopped to avoid tipping them off) deliveries of gallium shipments to the US while also accepting massive orders to get the US to run down its gallium strategic reserves before the export control announcement. The reason western arms manufacturers are so panicked might well be because the shipment date for the vast gallium orders they placed and is counting on is due to start shortly after the export controls are due to come into force.

China has already been doing war prep by increasing production of key dual use components and vastly increasing the export of such dual use items to Russia. This is actually the most difficult and time consuming part of boosting production for wartime surges because these chips and sensors are very complex and require significant investment in time, money and human capital to bring new production capabilities online. Classic example is a chip foundry that costs billions and years to build, and require very specific tools and machines that the west is desperately trying to keep a stranglehold on, but which China is systematically breaking out of.

However, it is entirely possible that China is ready to turn up the heat on the west in Ukraine now. Notice how so many of the weapons they North Koreans showcased to Shoigu recently looked uncannily like systems the PLA are using? China can truthfully say they are not providing lethal assistance to Russia if North Korea sells Russia the weapons, even if North Korea imports 99% of the core key components from China and just swaps the Chinese labels for Korean ones and does final assembly, just like how carbon China emits manufacturing goods for western companies to be sold to western consumers don’t count as carbon emitted by western countries.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
China is already producing target drones, some of which may even be stealth capable. i imagine these target drones should be more capable than shahed, just need to be fitted with a warhead.

The issue is cost.

Remember that a Shaheed piston-engine cruise missile would likely be just $20K each.

That is really, really low in comparisons to other cruise missiles or target drones
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
This, I believe, is the core reason why the US is so paranoid about China providing lethal assistance to Russia.

It’s pretty obvious by now that one of the original wet dream core objectives behind the whole Ukraine idiocy from Washington’s POV was to essentially do start transitioning the US to war economy in stealth, under the guise of military assistance to Ukraine to attempt to not trip too many alarm bells in Beijing.

Russia was supposed to crumble and fold, but not before the war hogties they EU to America’s boot and forces them to modernise their own armed forces (preferably with newly built American gear). So after a few years of Slavics killing each other by the thousands, Russia is supposed to be exhausted and/or regime changed and effectively off the board, allowing the US and their newly refreshed European allies to focus building a NATO of Asia (which can now be supplied by a rejuvenated American war economy capable of producing vast amounts of weapons and munitions) to focus fire on China.

Reality is going a little differently to say the least, and the most hilarious part is China managed to checkmate this entire elaborate plan with one simple move - export control on gallium. What good is a vast new production base if you don’t have the core raw ingredients to feed into it?

Notice China’s shrewd planning and patience in the timing. It didn’t knee-jerk the move immediately, it patiently waited a year for the US to deplete significant proportions of its munitions supply and invest heavily in new manufacturing capacities before pulling the rug out from under it all after all those costs have been sunk and resources expended. I would not be at all surprised if China deliberately slowed (but not stopped to avoid tipping them off) deliveries of gallium shipments to the US while also accepting massive orders to get the US to run down its gallium strategic reserves before the export control announcement. The reason western arms manufacturers are so panicked might well be because the shipment date for the vast gallium orders they placed and is counting on is due to start shortly after the export controls are due to come into force.

China has already been doing war prep by increasing production of key dual use components and vastly increasing the export of such dual use items to Russia. This is actually the most difficult and time consuming part of boosting production for wartime surges because these chips and sensors are very complex and require significant investment in time, money and human capital to bring new production capabilities online. Classic example is a chip foundry that costs billions and years to build, and require very specific tools and machines that the west is desperately trying to keep a stranglehold on, but which China is systematically breaking out of.

However, it is entirely possible that China is ready to turn up the heat on the west in Ukraine now. Notice how so many of the weapons they North Koreans showcased to Shoigu recently looked uncannily like systems the PLA are using? China can truthfully say they are not providing lethal assistance to Russia if North Korea sells Russia the weapons, even if North Korea imports 99% of the core key components from China and just swaps the Chinese labels for Korean ones and does final assembly, just like how carbon China emits manufacturing goods for western companies to be sold to western consumers don’t count as carbon emitted by western countries.

I don't think the Gallium restrictions were primarily about the US arms buildup (although this is a factor), and that it really was retaliation and a warning about the ongoing US tech sanctions on China.

Yes, the US recently authorised a very large munitions procurement package.
But if you look at the component munitions and their costs, much of this was with Ukraine in mind and not applicable to a Western Pacific scenario.

If you were to build an equivalent Chinese munitions procurement package for the Western Pacific, it far overmatches whatever the US is doing and China also spends significantly less as well
 

fatzergling

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well based on napkin maths, China produced and sold 17.5 million motorcycles in 2022. If even 10% was able to be converted to suicide UAVs ala shaheds you're already capable of blanketing the skies with them.

Considering how fast electric car factories capable of manufacturing hundreds of thousands of cars are built, it really doesn't take much to move to a war economy for general military goods, when dealing with Chinese numbers even a slow ramp up can look absurd to everyone else.
I don't think the Gallium restrictions were primarily about the US arms buildup (although this is a factor), and that it really was retaliation and a warning about the ongoing US tech sanctions on China.

Yes, the US recently authorised a very large munitions procurement package.
But if you look at the component munitions and their costs, much of this was with Ukraine in mind and not applicable to a Western Pacific scenario.

If you were to build an equivalent Chinese munitions procurement package for the Western Pacific, it far overmatches whatever the US is doing and China also spends significantly less as well
The Gallium restriction is interesting because it represents the first time China is attempting to weaken US industries, more specifically its military industries. However, despite US screaming about the China threat, it does seem like the US was caught blindsided by Chinas moves. Maybe it will change in the future, but I suspect that a large part of the USG believes they can attack China endlessly and not expect Chinese to respond.
 

coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
The Gallium restriction is interesting because it represents the first time China is attempting to weaken US industries, more specifically its military industries. However, despite US screaming about the China threat, it does seem like the US was caught blindsided by Chinas moves. Maybe it will change in the future, but I suspect that a large part of the USG believes they can attack China endlessly and not expect Chinese to respond.
No way the USG didn't expect China to respond. China's moves were telegraphed way in advance, plus USG already released many notices previously like list of critical minerals.
 
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