PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread

[crobato]

Harbin is right near the Russian Siberian border.

Further north just across the border and a stone's throw would be Komsomolsk un Amur, which is actually the KnAAPO factory where the Su-27SK, Su-35, Su-30MKK and the Su-33 is built. So imagine. Once the Flankers were done, they just flew over the border. In the same area, two of the 8 Kilos China ordered were made. But instead of being trucked across the border, the subs were loaded to a freighter in Vladivostok, then went down the sea of Japan and across the tip of the Korean peninsula.

Komsomolsk un Amur is so close to China, that it was indeed, part of China once, one of the northern territories ceded to Russia in the treaty of 1858. The Flanker and Kilo deals definitely marks the close relationship of this city to China's military buildup.

The plot thickens because this city is also the production facilities of Beriev.

And Beriev is the one that made the A-50 Mainstay.

Yes very interesting indeed.

Formally, China had a 20 million dollar contract to Beriev to supply some Be-103 amphibians. KnAAPO is also the manufacturer of the aircraft.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Harbin would be indeed an excellent site for a sino-russian AWACS venture since the Harbin Institute of Technology (HIT) as one of the leading chinese high tech universties (especially in aerospace!) would be pivotal for recruiting young and capable scientists and engineers for the project.:china:

Interestingly Harbin was from the late 19th century until around 1917 the inofficial capital of ´russian´ Manchuria respectively the northern zone of Manchuria retained by Russia after the war with Japan 1904/05 (Japan accepted the status quo in the treaties of 1906/12/16 with St. Petersburg).

During this time the number of Russian's and Chinese in the city was about equal and Harbin was a typical russian province town. Only after the Japanese conquered Harbin in 1931 the town was more and more sinicized and the last Russian's fled or were killed and deported by the soviet army in 1945. Today the city government tries to revive the curious history of her city for luring western and russian tourists to their beautifully rebuilt city.
(how times have changed..., may be russian engineers are living and working in significant numbers again there today! )

 

[zyun8288]

The second picture first showed up at least 6 months ago with several other pictures (different angles).

 

[Roger604]

The second picture first showed up at least 6 months ago with several other pictures (different angles).

Only in May did the Russians go public with the news that they can't deliver Il-76 by the terms of the contract. If they knew the Chinese were working on an Il-76 copy, they wouldn't have been so bold about demanding more money for the aircraft, as well as a later delivery date.

Perhaps the Chinese was going to make an Il-76 copy anyway. And the order from Russia was just in case things didn't pan out well for the indigenized version. It was a mere coincidence that the Russians backed out; and they didn't know about the Chinese program.

 

[yehe]

Harbin would be indeed an excellent site for a sino-russian AWACS venture since the Harbin Institute of Technology (HIT) as one of the leading chinese high tech universties (especially in aerospace!) would be pivotal for recruiting young and capable scientists and engineers for the project.

I seriosly doubt this is a sino-russian AWACS venture, especially when China is making her own copy of IL76, anyway, never heard any russian involvement in any of the 3 Chinese AWAC programs.

Interestingly Harbin was from the late 19th century until around 1917 the inofficial capital of ´russian´ Manchuria respectively the northern zone of Manchuria retained by Russia after the war with Japan 1904/05 (Japan accepted the status quo in the treaties of 1906/12/16 with St. Petersburg).

[/I] )

The Russians moved in and invaded part of the Manchuria after Sino-Japanese war at 1897, but they never had any capital there, since that area was never recognized as russian, almost all the deciding organs was in Vladivostok, which itself was also a Chinese City once.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Yehe, read my post carefully:

1. I have nowhere indicated that there is indeed existing an official venture sanctioned by the russian government in Moscow. Probably China has already acquired enough know how to produce an Il-76 rip off but that does not mean that nobody at certain sites in Harbin is marking his blueprints in cyrillic letters!

2. The Russians moved in to Manchuria in 1895 after China's crushing defeat at the hands of Japan and until the collapse of the Russian Empire in 1917 Harbin was an ´inofficial´administrative center of an ´inofficial´zone of influence on chinese territory . These zones were illegally carved out of chinese land by Russia and Japan and fortunately for China Russia was not able to consume her part of the treaties with Japan because of her defeat in World War I and the following internal turmoil.
(... is this sufficiently precise, yehe?)

 

[zyun8288]

Only in May did the Russians go public with the news that they can't deliver Il-76 by the terms of the contract. If they knew the Chinese were working on an Il-76 copy, they wouldn't have been so bold about demanding more money for the aircraft, as well as a later delivery date.

Perhaps the Chinese was going to make an Il-76 copy anyway. And the order from Russia was just in case things didn't pan out well for the indigenized version. It was a mere coincidence that the Russians backed out; and they didn't know about the Chinese program.

Sorry, I was very busy last night and didn't finish my post.

What I wanted to say was, that plane was not a chinese copy. It is an IL-76. No conspiracy. The original hoax about these picture was that somebody was trying to make them look like China's producing her own transporter. But it was quickly pointed out by quite a few people that it's just an IL-76 being refitted.

Having said that, China is working on her own military transport plane based on IL76 though.

 

[FugitiveVisions]

The original hoax about these picture was that somebody was trying to make them look like China's producing her own transporter. But it was quickly pointed out by quite a few people that it's just an IL-76 being refitted.

Just an IL-76 being refitted? And this was just six months ago? So this is the fifth KJ-2000? The sixth?

 

[crobato]

If that is a refit that is practically a reconstruction, including plane and engine overhaul. This kind of knowhow is usually reserved by the main factory itself, and in short, Russians.

 

[Roger604]

What I wanted to say was, that plane was not a chinese copy. It is an IL-76. No conspiracy. The original hoax about these picture was that somebody was trying to make them look like China's producing her own transporter. But it was quickly pointed out by quite a few people that it's just an IL-76 being refitted.

But why would the finished paint job disappear if they're just refitting it? It seems like a layer of yellow primer is being applied to the grayish original color of the metal composite.