Philippines Vs Taiwan... Troubled Waters
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Nah, Taiwan should declare the entire area Phillipino-free zone and enforce it.
MwRYum
Major
If such information don't make headline on CNN or BBC or New York Times, it ain't "news" if you catch my drift. But of course the western media would prefer to take the Philippines' side (or ignore this event altogether) for obvious reasons.
RollingWave
New Member
War starts when you will, but not end when you wish , that is a matter of truth.
The difference here is that the PRC can get away with far more shit internationally than the ROC can, that shouldn't be news to anyone. just like that no one else can operate with the same impunity as the USA internationally.
pushing off PH patrol boats is going to be done, but there is a fine line that this is treading.
Who is the aggressor here is in the eye of the beholder, if you seen any of the conversation elsewhere, the majority actually takes the other end. which is what the Ma regime is obviously concerned with, that they end up looking like the aggressor.
If we could get away with operating with the US standards, we already be bombing the PCG home ports.
You know, I served on the ROC navy once, one of the very ship that part took in that recent exercise, as a radarman, I can tell you that you know jack about what your talking about, the sea is large, but fishing zones are not everywhere, it's concentrated in a few spot, in those spots, you'll usually see several scores of fishing boats at least in a 10 NM radius on the radar (and many are so small that military radar barely pick them up.) at any given moment everywhere else, you see 0, only large freight ships.
Coastguard and navy alike patrol in certain set zones, you talk as if they just randomly go places.
This was first posted on CDF.
You can almost cringe seeing what a tight rope US is walking. Not condemning Philippines is effectively saying to Taiwan "we're backing you...but not really"
US again declines to condemn Manila over shooting
By William Lowther / Staff reporter in WASHINGTON
Despite strong pressure and repeated efforts, the US has again declined to issue an outright condemnation of the Philippines for shooting a Taiwanese fisherman.
However, US Department of State spokesperson Jennifer Psaki has confirmed that Washington is now trying to play a role in calming the growing crisis.
“We regret the tragic death of a Taiwan fishing boat master during the May 9 confrontation at sea with a Philippine patrol vessel,” Psaki said on Monday.
“The United States has been in touch with both the Philippine government and the Taiwan authorities regarding the incident,” she said.
Psaki said that the US welcomed the Philippine government’s pledge to conduct a “full and transparent” investigation.
While the State Department has refused to give details, sources with knowledge of the situation told the Taipei Times that US diplomats are currently talking to both sides and strongly urging caution.
Asked if the US was worried about a possible escalation, Psaki said: “We continue to urge all parties, in any scenario, to ensure maritime safety and to refrain from provocative actions.”
“The Philippine government is going to be conducting an investigation and they will be working with the Taiwan authorities to establish what happened in this case,” she said.
Pressed to condemn the Philippine authorities for firing on the Taiwanese boat, Psaki appeared to equivocate.
She was asked to explain what actions Taiwan had taken that the US was concerned about when only one side — the Philippines — had actually done any shooting.
“When you’re warning both sides, you’re giving an equivalency. What is the Taiwanese action that you’re concerned about?” Psaki was asked.
“The Philippine government is looking into this case — I don’t want to get ahead of their process of investigating what happened,” she said.
At a regular daily press briefing, Psaki was again pressured to be more specific.
“The Taiwanese fisherman was unarmed. It’s a fishing boat — small compared to the government vessel that the Filipinos had. When you say confrontation, only one side was shooting the other, using a machine gun. Fifty-nine bullet holes were found in that small boat. I want you to comment on the fact that someone opened fire in the South China Sea,” a reporter said.
Psaki said that she was just making a broad point that both sides should refrain from provocative actions.
“I’m not going to speculate on this specific case,” she said.
Asked where, in the US’ view, the shooting took place, Psaki said: “The precise location of the incident is not yet clear, although it appears the incident took place in or near disputed waters, where both claim fishing rights.”
Psaki said that the US regretted the “tragic death” and encouraged “peaceful negotiation and peaceful resolution.”
“When you see people doing things that run directly counter to behavior that would lead to stability, are you going to stand up and point that out, and hold these governments to account? You’re holding the victimizer and the victim to equal account, so it doesn’t seem to match,” the reporter said.
Psaki replied: “There will be an investigation run by the Philippine government into what happened here. I don’t think that is holding both sides to the same account.”
In a final effort the reporter asked: “Would you condemn the killing of an innocent fisherman, unarmed, in this incident? Or would you condone that?”
“I certainly didn’t condone it. I said we regret the tragic death of this fisherman,” Psaki said.
It was the second time the US Department of State has refused to condemn the incident.
You can almost cringe seeing what a tight rope US is walking. Not condemning Philippines is effectively saying to Taiwan "we're backing you...but not really"
US again declines to condemn Manila over shooting
By William Lowther / Staff reporter in WASHINGTON
Despite strong pressure and repeated efforts, the US has again declined to issue an outright condemnation of the Philippines for shooting a Taiwanese fisherman.
However, US Department of State spokesperson Jennifer Psaki has confirmed that Washington is now trying to play a role in calming the growing crisis.
“We regret the tragic death of a Taiwan fishing boat master during the May 9 confrontation at sea with a Philippine patrol vessel,” Psaki said on Monday.
“The United States has been in touch with both the Philippine government and the Taiwan authorities regarding the incident,” she said.
Psaki said that the US welcomed the Philippine government’s pledge to conduct a “full and transparent” investigation.
While the State Department has refused to give details, sources with knowledge of the situation told the Taipei Times that US diplomats are currently talking to both sides and strongly urging caution.
Asked if the US was worried about a possible escalation, Psaki said: “We continue to urge all parties, in any scenario, to ensure maritime safety and to refrain from provocative actions.”
“The Philippine government is going to be conducting an investigation and they will be working with the Taiwan authorities to establish what happened in this case,” she said.
Pressed to condemn the Philippine authorities for firing on the Taiwanese boat, Psaki appeared to equivocate.
She was asked to explain what actions Taiwan had taken that the US was concerned about when only one side — the Philippines — had actually done any shooting.
“When you’re warning both sides, you’re giving an equivalency. What is the Taiwanese action that you’re concerned about?” Psaki was asked.
“The Philippine government is looking into this case — I don’t want to get ahead of their process of investigating what happened,” she said.
At a regular daily press briefing, Psaki was again pressured to be more specific.
“The Taiwanese fisherman was unarmed. It’s a fishing boat — small compared to the government vessel that the Filipinos had. When you say confrontation, only one side was shooting the other, using a machine gun. Fifty-nine bullet holes were found in that small boat. I want you to comment on the fact that someone opened fire in the South China Sea,” a reporter said.
Psaki said that she was just making a broad point that both sides should refrain from provocative actions.
“I’m not going to speculate on this specific case,” she said.
Asked where, in the US’ view, the shooting took place, Psaki said: “The precise location of the incident is not yet clear, although it appears the incident took place in or near disputed waters, where both claim fishing rights.”
Psaki said that the US regretted the “tragic death” and encouraged “peaceful negotiation and peaceful resolution.”
“When you see people doing things that run directly counter to behavior that would lead to stability, are you going to stand up and point that out, and hold these governments to account? You’re holding the victimizer and the victim to equal account, so it doesn’t seem to match,” the reporter said.
Psaki replied: “There will be an investigation run by the Philippine government into what happened here. I don’t think that is holding both sides to the same account.”
In a final effort the reporter asked: “Would you condemn the killing of an innocent fisherman, unarmed, in this incident? Or would you condone that?”
“I certainly didn’t condone it. I said we regret the tragic death of this fisherman,” Psaki said.
It was the second time the US Department of State has refused to condemn the incident.
Many Taiwanese are petitioning the White House. Unfortunately you'll never see that reported on CNN or Yahoo.
Good luck with the petition. Phillipine is more useful to the US because she is more willing to confront PRC. It is so obvious from the US' reactions so far which side the US is on
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
The US is not going to condemn the Philippines because it declares the Philippines as dangerous giving China a reason send more highly armed forces into the area. The US is not going back the Philippines either because that means everyone will think it's okay to shoot unarmed parties for any made up reason. The US is trying to stay out of it but at the same time trying to calm the situation down because the greater issue of China. This is where the Obama Administration shows its lack of skill in foreign policy. They think everyone will fall in line like the Pied Piper. They don't see or want to see that everyone in Asia has their own agenda pushed by nationalism and a lot of countries hide behind the US in order to carry out their agenda not because they blindly love the US. Apparently why Filipinos are so defensive and will apparently kill an unarmed Taiwanese is because Filipinos feel everyone not just China are encroaching onto their territorial waters and fishing where they're not suppose to and take advantage of the Philippines weak military forces. Again sparks nationalism. The reason why Filipinos are bringing up China because that's the "go to" excuse to fend off any criticism for their own actions.
The two countries the US can rebuke and they have no other country to turn to are Japan and the Philippines. Both countries today are causing headaches for the US. But it's the blinded from foresight that makes the Obama Administration think everyone one follows them like the Pied Piper is also why they won't rebuke them. Japan's nationalism has caused a rift in the important economic triad alliance of the US/Japan/South Korea against China. And now Philippine nationalism has caused a crack in the US's pivot towards Asia. And the irony is China has nothing to do with it. China did not force Japanese ultra nationalists to make comments that also happened to offend the South Koreans. China did not force Filipinos to kill an unarmed fisherman who wasn't Chinese. Nor invade Malaysia and slaughter innocent people because of ironically claiming territorial that Filipinos say is historically theirs. The fact is Obama thought he could exploit nationalism by blindly supporting anyone against China. And now those countries are exploiting that blind support for their own nationalist agendas. A large motivator of nationalism is envy and jealousy. The US maybe rich and powerful but even it doesn't have the ability to satisfy all the nationalistic countries it needs against China. It's easy to rebuke Japan and the Philippines because they have no where else to turn to and everyone in the alliance against China stays together. But the US doesn't want to do that because ironically any country that has options other than them they see cannot be counted on.
The two countries the US can rebuke and they have no other country to turn to are Japan and the Philippines. Both countries today are causing headaches for the US. But it's the blinded from foresight that makes the Obama Administration think everyone one follows them like the Pied Piper is also why they won't rebuke them. Japan's nationalism has caused a rift in the important economic triad alliance of the US/Japan/South Korea against China. And now Philippine nationalism has caused a crack in the US's pivot towards Asia. And the irony is China has nothing to do with it. China did not force Japanese ultra nationalists to make comments that also happened to offend the South Koreans. China did not force Filipinos to kill an unarmed fisherman who wasn't Chinese. Nor invade Malaysia and slaughter innocent people because of ironically claiming territorial that Filipinos say is historically theirs. The fact is Obama thought he could exploit nationalism by blindly supporting anyone against China. And now those countries are exploiting that blind support for their own nationalist agendas. A large motivator of nationalism is envy and jealousy. The US maybe rich and powerful but even it doesn't have the ability to satisfy all the nationalistic countries it needs against China. It's easy to rebuke Japan and the Philippines because they have no where else to turn to and everyone in the alliance against China stays together. But the US doesn't want to do that because ironically any country that has options other than them they see cannot be counted on.
solarz
Brigadier
First, if you believe that the ROCN is capable of effectively covering all the "hot" fishing spots, then why were they not deployed back in 2006? Why did they not prevent Hung's death?
Second, you are wrong to think that Mainland can get away with more than Taiwan. The Mainland always has to worry about American intervention. Taiwan does not. Despite what you seem to think, the choice between PH and TW is a no-brainer. The only reason US refuses to condemn PH is because, as mentioned by AMace, they don't want to give China more leverage in the SCS dispute.
Therefore, the only thing preventing TW from quickly and decisively ending this dispute is her own inertia and lack of confidence.