News on China's scientific and technological development.

s002wjh said:

AI requires 5g bandwidth and massive data. telsa use 5g and massive data in China to test it's algorithm, then transferred all the data and algorithms back to US. Hmmm

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To be more specific about data and algorithm for Telsa autonomous vehicles, not sure if that even matters for China.

The data, would be logically connected to the performance of the car. And the data with algorithm most likely be based on the street grid to optimize traffic flow in smart cities for autonomous vehicles, to make it easier to get from one point to another.

The Telsa car, that is their car. If they want that performance data, that should be their right. As for the data and algorithm for the street grid in a smart city, not sure if that would be of much use taking it from a Chinese city to an American one.

By law, Telsa's data must be stored inside China on Chinese servers. If they want to replicate that data over the Pacific, then they could. But they must pay the data storage cost of the cloud and for bandwidth.

Telsa in China, with autonomous vehicles, basically a Chinese company, but with foreign owners. Once they come, they are not leaving.

One last point about the automobile industry.

That industry has one massive supply chain. If Telsa opens up a factory in China, that is a lot of business for the Chinese automobile supply chain.

The next step for China Inc., fabrication of the semiconductors used in various parts and assemblies inside the vehicles manufactured today.

Nothing personal, just business.

daifo said:

14nm is 5-7 year old cpu tech. No owner of cloud servers or pc or phone or car or anything want chips that are lower in processing power, runs hotter , uses more energy, and takes more space than others in the free market. This type of mentality will bring China back decades. It China wants to be the superpower and world manufacturing/tech hub, there is no surrendering till it reach equilibrium with what is on the free market.

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most Intel high end CPU still with 14nm technology (apart from 10th gen)

horse said:

Let's think of it this way.

What happened with England had the Industrial Revolution? What happened next?

What happened when the United States lead with the 4G networks. People attribute the rise of internet and technical giants like Micro$oft, Intel, Cisco, Google, Amazon, because 4G happened in American first, giving it first mover advantage.

What will happened if China has first mover advantage in terms of years in 5G networks?

China is not isolated here. Western government may bar their internal telecom companies from procuring Huawei 5G equipment, but any western company could work with 5G standalone networks inside China. The autonomous driving vehicle, you need standalone 5G, BMW will develop that in China not Germany, because one country has a standalone 5G network.

That is first mover advantage. BWM could choose to wait years for Germany to install their 5G standalone network, then get working on the autonomous driving vehicle networked to the 5G. As long as no one else does the same thing in China, that will work, then they can wait.

If we understand first mover advantage, we understand how realistic that option is for a company like BMW.

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What is this fixation with the 5G ?

I can understand the hype from the industry, they try to reanimate the slowly dying phone sales, but beyond that who care ?

It is a nice slogan, but the hyperventilation from the USA about it is not due to same cutting edge market leader status of the country whom implementing it first, but simply due to that the 5G use PESA/AESA antennas for beamforming in millimetre wavelength , so they can be used for intelligence/air traffic monitoring .

So if China ship these stations then they can collect real time data about the air traffic of USA, and the RCS of different airplanes.

Anlsvrthng said:

What is this fixation with the 5G ?

I can understand the hype from the industry, they try to reanimate the slowly dying phone sales, but beyond that who care ?

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Indeed, as a smartphone consumer I couldn’t care less. My 4G phone at sustained downloads of 50Mbps can burn through my data budget in less than an hour. I have 1Gbit fiber flat-rate to my house and that will trump 5G for quite some time to come.

5G does hold some promise for the automotive industry, due to much lower latencies and overall system throughput, but the jury is still out on how that will pan out.

Max Demian said:

Indeed, as a smartphone consumer I couldn’t care less. My 4G phone at sustained downloads of 50Mbps can burn through my data budget in less than an hour.

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Actually, I was able to get over 110Mb/s sustained over 4G at a different location. This is already well beyond the threshold to watch 4K video. And what’s the point of doing that on a smartphone?

Anlsvrthng said:

What is this fixation with the 5G ?

I can understand the hype from the industry, they try to reanimate the slowly dying phone sales, but beyond that who care ?

It is a nice slogan, but the hyperventilation from the USA about it is not due to same cutting edge market leader status of the country whom implementing it first, but simply due to that the 5G use PESA/AESA antennas for beamforming in millimetre wavelength , so they can be used for intelligence/air traffic monitoring .

So if China ship these stations then they can collect real time data about the air traffic of USA, and the RCS of different airplanes.

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China's 5G goes not use mmwave. They are on C-band.

mmwave lacks the range for intelligence or air traffic monitoring. Its more wifi in steroids. Think of a sports stadium. If you have a base station in one end, the receiver in the other end of the sports stadium will have trouble receiving the reception.

Max Demian said:

Actually, I was able to get over 110Mb/s sustained over 4G at a different location. This is already well beyond the threshold to watch 4K video. And what’s the point of doing that on a smartphone?

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That part of 5G is overhyped. You are going to be limited in speeds by the internet infrastructure of your area, including the provider's routers.

The real benefit of 5G is for the providers themselves. It allows much higher density per base station than 4G. This makes sense in places with high population densities, which is obviously China, and with Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities. It doesn't make much sense in low density areas, such as rural areas or small towns. 4G LTE on UHF, like 700Mhz, can cover great range and is good for situations that rely on coverage and building penetration. Longer bands means you need less base stations per square area. 5G bands, like S to C-band require more base stations per square area to achieve the same coverage. This is easier to do in China since you have less regulations and civilian opposition to installing base stations. Mmwave is a bigger problem because its exceedingly short range requires an even higher number of base stations to be installed, which means a higher capital outlay and potential societal opposition.

Anlsvrthng said:

What is this fixation with the 5G ?

I can understand the hype from the industry, they try to reanimate the slowly dying phone sales, but beyond that who care ?

It is a nice slogan, but the hyperventilation from the USA about it is not due to same cutting edge market leader status of the country whom implementing it first, but simply due to that the 5G use PESA/AESA antennas for beamforming in millimetre wavelength , so they can be used for intelligence/air traffic monitoring .

So if China ship these stations then they can collect real time data about the air traffic of USA, and the RCS of different airplanes.

Click to expand...

Sorry, China does use mmwave in very specific areas, but their national standard is different from APAC, EU and the US.

5G uses AESA but no one in the industry uses those terms. More like MIMO, and Massive MIMO, MU-MIMO (Multi User MIMO) and Adaptive MIMO.

mmwave is so short ranged its intended to be used within specific areas, e.g. tech campus, silicon cities. Main commercial use of 5G is from S to C band, such as 3.5Ghz.
'

Anlsvrthng said:

What is this fixation with the 5G ?

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I'm going to present the other side of the coin from the technical AESA/PESA frequency wave band mumble-jumble.

Just as how 4G enabled businesses like Uber to thrive (try ordering an Uber on 3G or edge, and having the driver struggle to find you lol), 5G could create entirely new services and products we don't know yet. Low latency and data capabilities could unlock the true potential of self-learning algorithms/artificial intelligence and maximize cloud computing, allowing existing businesses to improve upon existing application/operation offerings. In essence 5G is the foundation of future smart cities, it'll create the backbone infrastructure that supports new connected services like autonomous cars (and why Tesla is worried cause they might lose out on the massive China market with the Huawei ban as well as the rise of China's own NIO), and thereby increasing society's productivity. We could very well be looking at a new industrial revolution, as manufacturers move towards an increasingly connected infrastructure. For example:

1. Farmers can optimize agriculture workflow
2. Patient health data to be sent to doctors in real time, there's a whole market for remote monitoring devices... or even remote surgery, so patients don't need to travel halfway round the world to visit a specific specialist for an operation
3. Efficient data sharing allows for more accurate quoting of life/health and car insurance
4. Accurate tracking of supply chains, allowing for better business/operation decision making
5. Just think about how web mapping services can track and share road traffic in real time, notifying travellers how best to get to their destination

Society runs on data, and 5G completely knocks the door down in terms of its fast/efficient/effective ability to share such data. That's why countries are desperate and fixated on 5G, especially when China is at the forefront of the race.