News on China's scientific and technological development.

machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Where do you get this information?

They built a hospital in 10 days in Wuhan during the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak.

Huawei has been hiring Taiwan and Korean IC workers with big paychecks.

Things move at China speed inside China.
That's very true. I'm trying to find an article from Korea Herald or Korea times about story: mid-2019 (last year) when trump blocked USA chips sale to Huawei, Huawei then sent teams to a Shanghai company that produces certain chips for telecom field. The teams worked 2-3 shifts with the local companies to meet international standards.

So with full blocking now, u can bet china is moving at full speed 7x24x365 with teams backing up each other.. our perception of a 1-year work period is perhaps measured in just 2-3-4 months, or 3 yrs is just maybe 1.3 years lol. China will succeed in this semicon battle. Why,? They aren't starting from zero, they got strong foundations and experience, but now moving into different phases.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
US in panic! US chip companies extorting money from the US government or else they lose to China.

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Chip Industry Wants $50 Billion to Keep Manufacturing in U.S.
The federal government needs to deploy $20 billion to $50 billion to make the U.S. as attractive a location for plants as Taiwan, China, South Korea, Singapore, Israel and parts of Europe, the Semiconductor Industry Association said in a study released Wednesday. Failure to do that threatens U.S. leadership of the sector as a whole, it added.

Look at all those countries diversifying from the US. The US doesn't have to worry if they were in that much control. Guess what? It's still going to cost more in the end meaning less profits on top of losing China as a customer.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
That article is from Taiwan. Why would Chinese companies avoid Huawei? Do they think Trump won't go after them if they go along? Taiwanese are liars just as much as Hong Kongers.

You are correct but Taiwan based DigiTimes is one of the main news outlets for the semiconductor industry. It is typically where most of the "scoops" show up. They are less accurate than other publications but they usually get the news before others. They are more often right than not.

SMIC needs to import machine tools which are subject to export controls if they want to expand 14nm production and more advanced nodes. They also need to import consumables like the materials to manufacture chips. They use Chinese suppliers when available but in many cases these don't exist or are not competitive. If they get pressured they have little alternative but to concede to be honest. Otherwise their business will slide and they have other possible customers other than Huawei. To be honest SMIC is one of the few success cases in semiconductor manufacturing in China, or even the world to be honest, and this is largely thanks to them being able to attract top notch talent. Even if you have the tools and equipment process, development and design is not trivial. Just see how even established players like Intel are losing ground to TSMC. It takes years to design a process and ramp it up to production with quality and quantity. Yet for many years SMIC survived and recently managed to get to 14nm technology with their N+1 process supposed to enter production this year.

I think Huawei just simply should get their own fabs by hook or crook if need be. Just like Samsung did decades back, they need to integrate vertically. Huawei certainly has enough sales to justify having their own fabs.
 
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free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
SMEE is the most important tech company in China. But also I would not be surprised that state owned research institutes linked to the military are also heavily involved in developing lithography machines. Remember all of the chips China uses for space and radar and J-20 are made in China. So there are bound to be more than just SMEE working on this problem. It's just that we as outsiders don't know.
I draw very different conclusions.

1.Where did all the Chinese with better managerial and entrepreneurial skills vanish to? The answer is China (or Taiwan, or Hong Kong, or Singapore or Southeast Asia)! The fact that you have so many Indian executives making money for American or British companies is a very sad reflection on how backward/lacking of opportunites India is today. There is even a term for this phenomenon: the "Sea-Turtle" effect.

The Indians today are very much like the more ambitious Chinese in the 19th Century. Back then, these Chinese went to Southeast Asia and 200 years later, ethnic Chinese dominate over 50% of all Southeast Asian economies with Indonesia being the most skewed (< 5% population controlling 75% of the economy). If Southeast Asia is a laboratory to test whether Chinese or Indians are better at building relationships then clearly we know who is the overwhelming winner.

Putin is a masterful politician (Russia's GDP is less than South Korea). Mao was a great strategist. Sadly, the only chips they can play with are Russian and Chinese lives. How many Russians died in other countries' wars? How many Chinese died in Korea? I am sure both rather be in Xi's position of real strength. Chihuahuas bark all the time. Big dogs don't have to. Soviet Union collapsed because it couldn't sustain its military. U.S. won WW2 and the Cold War not due to its great generalship but due to its immense industrial might. Wealth does equal Power. Deng understood where real power lies and economy was the means. It is the weak that must make deals. Between countries, there is only national self-interest. There is nothing cultural or ideological. Lasting alliances are built upon mutually aligned objectives. Do I care if my banker is vegetarian? He is a good banker if he lends me the money. Examples: China/Pakistan, U.S./Saudi Arabia, North Korea/Iran, etc. Using race or religion as common thread between two states is convenient way to sell it to the common people, nothing more.

Today, Russia, Iran, and North Korea all make waves just like Mao in the 1950's but they are all mere nuisances to the U.S. Nobody cares what Modi or Abe (until this week) thinks. Only China is deemed as an existential threat. Rightfully so. Nobody would be worried about a competitor if you think your competition is going down the wrong path. On the other hand, you would be extremely concerned if you believe your competition is better and will eat your lunch and dinner and all the snacks in between. Just look at the Maximum Pressure tactic U.S. is trying to exert on China. Talk is cheap. The only real conclusion one can draw is that China is doing everything right and the U.S. is tucking its tail and try to bark as loudly as it can. With a GDP (PPP) 27% greater than the U.S. last year, it is really silly to think China can lie low without anyone noticing. Deng would be thrilled to know his strategy worked and must be discarded.

Wealth = Influence = First among equals.

I agree with some of the stuff you mentioned here. But how has the buying off countries worked for China? Not very well. We would be kidding ourselves if any of these Brick road countries would be willing to support China in a war. In fact Australia who is extremely dependent on CHina economically is not an Allie of China. Even North Korea who is completely depends on China for economy do not always support or listen to China.

Look at Iran, they have nothing to offer anyone. They are sanctioned and economically extremely weak. But they have proxies all over the middle East, Hezbollah, houthis, etc. who aren't even Persians but are willing to sacrifice their life for Iran. Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen are essentially Iranian controlled proxy states.

You know the reason why Iran has such geopolitical power? THey have an ideology in Shia islam that is shared across these countries and groups. People are willing to sacrifice their life for ideology or god, but not for money.

Unfortunately China doesn't really have a coherent ideology. So XI has to resort to buying countries off which doesn't really work all that well.


I rest my case. I believe that China has the right pieces to conquer semiconductors and become the world's largest economy. But I am less optimistic about soft power. Xi needs to learn a little from Putin or Iran. Maybe the ideology China should adopt is building an union of anti American imperialism nations. But I'm not sure if Xi is the right person to pull that off.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General


My friends and I would go to steak restaurants a lot. And when our sizzling big juicy steaks are brought to our table, someone would always say, "This is why the terrorists hate us..." Americans believe countries that hate the US, it's because it's out of envy. That's why when some pretty little white girl goes missing, someone will always think white slavery is involved. They hate TikTok because it's beating their Western rivals in popularity. No one can be more popular than them and that's why they hate TikTok. They hate anything from China that's perceived as good or even more better than what they have and that's what they see in the future because of things like TikTok. It should've never have happened but it is. The reason is as simple as that to why Trump and his followers are waging a tech war on China. Trump can't just blanket say anything Chinese has to be banned because that would expose its purely racism. That's why they use the national security excuse even though they have no evidence. He'll do it one by one. Before Trump was ever thinking about being President I saw him in an interview where he expressed his anger that Asia had better airports than the US. Is that crime? No, why would he say it unless he knew there were like-minded people to get angry over it also. TikTok is about fun and they don't like it because only they can determine what is fun in the world and it can only come from the US. That video above about the go-cart, Ninebot, a Chinese company, has sold out because they're high in demand around the world. So popular Ninebot is thinking of opening stores around the world. China seems to be in the lead over toys for adults with the money to pay for it. Another threat to the US. When you see China coming out with something that's better or more popular than what they have, just remember this is why they hate the Chinese.
 
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weig2000

Captain
Under the 14th 5Year Plan 2021 - 2025, China intends to help Foundries develop 5 - 7nm Chip Processes using Domestic manufacturing equipment. Looks like Huawei, SMIC and other FABs are on target to develop 7nm Chips in the next few years.

Check out this article here

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This is consistent with what I have said before in this thread of the key objectives for the Chinese semiconductor industry: Build 28nm fabs within three years using indigenous equipment and materials (or at least the de-Americanized ones), reach 7nm in five years. It would be significant achievement.

People should not hold unrealistic expectations. Semiconductor is one of the most complex manufacturing industry on the planet. China is quite behind the leading-edge in many areas of the industry as of now. Then again, you don't underestimate China's capability and will. It has proved itself again and again. It just takes some time.
 
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