News on China's scientific and technological development.

machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei's SK factor, and JP factor.
A week or so ago, it was mentioned that Councillor Yang Jiechi went to SK to discuss something about an alliance with CN on semi; previously it was reported that Samsung had built a semi line with no US equipment/software,

"Samsung seems to be more active in this regard. Media reports say Samsung has cooperated with equipment manufacturers in Japan and Europe to build a small, 7nm production line that doesn’t use U.S. equipment. Samsung hopes to actively attract multiple customers through this move.
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What about JP, a pic here:

”In November, Chairman Liang Hua of Huawei Technologies told a group of corporate executives and academics in Tokyo that his company plans to spend close to US$10 billion on procurement in Japan this year – more than double the amount it spent two years ago – and even more in 2020.

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galvatron

Junior Member
Registered Member
Now all that needs to happen is the collapse of the US dollar and then the USA will be thrown down into third world status for years to come. Hence all trump has accomplished is what he had set out to prevent, the end of the American empire
Is it possible to keep RMB notes instead? Youn need to have a RMB bank account when you convert from US$.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's not going to be like a typical Civil War with armies of soldiers and clearly defined political borders. Rather it is going to be more similar to the
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where you have the slow collapse of the political, social, and economic cohesion into dysfunction. Polarized between the (Leftist) Populares and Optimates (Conservatives) both sides increasingly turned to violence such as rioting or the murder of political candidates to advocate their political agendas.

These past few months in the US seem to mirror those things as violence becomes more widespread in society with militant political gangs start appearing more often in protests and other political events as a show of force to protect and deter the other side. With both sides increasingly becoming more radicalized (thanks to the media sensationalism) and heavily armed, the likelihood of miscalculation and unintentional escalation increases.

I'm particularly concerned
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. A lot of people don't seem to understand why this is a turning point because it looks like the far-left has declared war on the far-right. Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, and other far-right are going to look weak if they do not retaliate for the killing of on their own. Essentially we might just see the US turn into a giant gang turf war with random acts of terror like shootings or bombings of each other's peoples and neighborhoods. Since we've already had a few politicians and targeted and attacked in the past by domestic terrorism (e.g.
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and
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), I can foresee the terrifying possibility of radical militant groups harassing voters to align to their political views during the 2020 election season. Friends and families have already been blocking each other based on political affiliation for sometimes but now its also being expressed on the streets.

As a Chinese-American, I'm terrified. Not only do we have to deal with the pandemic and economic recession but those two things may be subordinate issues to the social upheaval.
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and
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have been on the rise even in my neighborhood and the fact that there's a growing risk of being collateral damage in a nationwide gang war between radical elements in Democratic and Republican parties is not something I'm looking forwards to.

There won't be full scale conventional war, but rather it will be continued civil unrest which will sap the countries strength. Think about the relative collapse (not absolute collapse) of South Africa from the 80's (when it was basically a 1st world country) to the early 2000's (where its now slightly poorer on average than china). They didn't actually fall, they just stopped developing. I think what will happen is America's long term recovery will take much longer than people anticipate because of psychological wounding and latent class warfare. There could be a case where American GDP doesn't reach 2019 levels until 2023-2024. In those same years, America credibility to threaten allies will be severly compromised. Remember the US did not bring Huawei to its knees, it actually threatened a taiwanese company to its knees to stop supplying huawei. For the same reason, continued unrest means nominally american allies like netherlands might just look the other way and start selling EUV machines again. What you already see in Europe looks broadly like this:

China = evil
US = slightly less evil

If US continues its shitshow, it becomes US = evil, China = evil -> fuck it, lets just sell to everyone since everyone is evil.
 

machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
ARM
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by Michael Bruck on 09-04-2020 at 6:00 am
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Over the past few weeks, there have been numerous reports about Nvidia’s overtures to acquire Arm. The news has mostly been obsessed about the $31 billion that Arm’s current owner, Softbank, paid for Arm and whether Nvidia could pay such an eye-watering price to buy this asset. There is also pushback from Herman Hauser who was one of Arm’s earliest backers, raising concerns that Arm’s destiny is vital for Britain’s future, which is an odd concern given that Softbank is a Japanese company. Putting all this aside for a moment, I would like to focus on the strategic importance of such a merger and, if the merger does go through, why this could result in a momentous change in the balance of power in the computer and semiconductor industry and why a combined Nvidia and Arm could truly be a game-changer.
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machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Who is doing these, SMIC, Huahong..or ?


#China will launch a new-generation positioning
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for the
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System (
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) by the end of 2020. The homegrown 22-nanometer BDS positioning chip is expected to be put into mass production in the first half of 2021

 

hullopilllw

Junior Member
Registered Member
hi Petrolicious88,

From my opinion that's what the US wanted, they know they need to invest huge amount of money, talent and time ,a brilliant solution is concocted, why not borrow or co-opt their supposed allies tech as their own, since she is able to contribute a small but critical portion of the IC sector supply chain, she is using that to consolidate its preeminence, by bullying and threatening its allies with sanction and harnessing their technology. Its a win win solution for them, you control their technology ,have a say in its development and to whom to sell.

You can see how SK, Taiwan and Singapore is able to develop their IC sector and Japan is being curtail, cause small countries are not a threat and can be easily be control.

Singapore is no no. Their Chartered Semi is no more theirs.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Interesting. For really node critical items, China is already competitive (AMEC, etching) or not far behind (Naura, 14/16nm deposition), and IIRC, China has some decent ion implantation equipment. And all on $200 million of FY19 annual revenue.
For a while now China’s problem with its semiconductors industry isn’t so much that they don’t have capabilities but they have a hard time getting a foothold with customers. Getting customers requires more than just being able to produce a technology at a particular level of sophistication. It requires doing things at a consistent enough quality to be profitable, especially at scale. It’s the scale at which Chinese semiconductors firms need to deliver that partially keep them from effectively capitalizing their tech developments. If you can’t produce consistency customers won’t award you with contracts that give you the money to keep improving your process. Sometimes the difference is as basic as having reliable technical or customer support. This is the part of any technology that comes from learning by doing. China’s been a lot closer than a lot of outside observers think. Ironically it may be the threat of these tech bans that finally push their industries over the hump.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Forget about silicone base chip newer chips is coming and China will invest large amount of money in third gen chip
Third-generation semiconductors are mainly chipsets made of materials such as silicon carbide and gallium nitride. They can operate at high frequency and in higher power and temperature environments, and are widely used in fifth-generation radio frequency chips, military-grade radars and electric vehicles.
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China plans huge investment in next-generation chips: Report
Facing pressure from the US, China wants to develop its own chip-making technology, sources tell Bloomberg.
Bloomberg
3 Sept 2020

Chinese firms such as Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, whose chips are seen here, Will Semiconductor Ltd and National Silicon Industry Group Co could benefit from the government's new push [File; Qilai Shen/Bloomberg]'s new push [File; Qilai Shen/Bloomberg]

Chinese firms such as Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, whose chips are seen here, Will Semiconductor Ltd and National Silicon Industry Group Co could benefit from the government's new push [File; Qilai Shen/Bloomberg]
China is planning a sweeping set of new government policies to develop its domestic semiconductor industry and counter Trump administration restrictions, conferring the same kind of priority on the effort it accorded to building its atomic capability, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

Beijing is preparing broad support for so-called third-generation semiconductors for the five years through 2025, said the people, asking not to be identified discussing government deliberations. A suite of measures to bolster research, education and financing for the industry has been added to a draft of the country's 14th five-year plan, which will be presented to the country's top leaders in October, the people said.

China's top leaders will gather next month to lay out their economic strategy for the next half decade, including efforts to ramp up domestic consumption and make critical technology at home. President Xi Jinping has pledged an estimated $1.4 trillion through 2025 for technologies ranging from wireless networks to artificial intelligence. Semiconductors are fundamental to virtually every component of China's technology ambitions -- and an increasingly aggressive Trump administration threatens to cut off their supply from abroad.

"The Chinese leadership realizes that semiconductors underpin all advanced technologies, and that it can no longer dependably rely on American supplies," said Dan Wang, technology analyst at research firm Gavekal Dragonomics. "In the face of stricter U.S. restrictions on chip access, China's response can only be to keep pushing its own industry to develop."

Shares in several major Chinese chipmakers gained. Shanghai Fudan Microelectronics Group Co. finished 4.3% higher in Hong Kong. On mainland bourses, Will Semiconductor Ltd. -- the second most valuable listed Chinese chip firm -- rose almost 10%. Xiamen Changelight Co. closed 14% up while Focus Lightings Tech Co. jumped 5.6%.
Not every material is good for every type of semiconductor tech. A lot of 3rd gen materials are for other kinds of semiconductors applications like RF or power systems, not for computing.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
SMIC
Hi WTAN,

What about the recent expansion plan of SMIC, I think they had recently purchase a lot of equipment from the American supplier?, Hope they get a full refund from their purchases?

SMIC should cancel the order from the American suppliers as soon as possible. This American equipment would become pieces of junk if SMIC is sanctioned. SMIC should place orders with SMEE and other local suppliers instead.

The $13 Billion USD worth of equipment China spends every year with foreign makers should be shifted to local equipment makers.

On another note, SMEE is now mass producing its 65nm Immersion Lithography machine. This machine can produce 45nm Chips. With Multiple Patterning it will be able to produce 22nm to 28nm Chips.

This is the machine Huawei has ordered for its 45nm FAB which will be completed this year. Huawei can produce 28nm Chips using this same machine.

This machine will allow China to be self sufficient in producing 22nm - 28nm Chips.
 
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