News on China's scientific and technological development.

cbl21 said:

whats the difference between chip architecture and the size of chips (7NM vs 14NM) they use in their 5G equipment?

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Don’t really know, I heard it uses less antennas for same speed due to algorithm advancements making it better and cheaper. You would need to read their patents to understand the potential differences.

Also, having the largest patent portfolio also makes it cheaper from a royalties standpoint.

localizer said:

Yes it's possible, Intel does "die shrinks" in its "tick-tock" model for chip development where they develop a new CPU architecture, then shrink it using the next node. i.e. Sandy Bridge family going from 32nm to 22nm. Intel has hit a roadblock at 14nm so they probably trying to slow down Asia just like zuckerberg did with Tiktok.




Problem is, if SMIC is sanctioned, Huawei might not even have access to 14nm.

Also, 14nm is atleast 1x larger than 7nm in terms of the size of the actual CPU and uses like 50% more power. (Based on my observations from AMD's transition from 14nm to 7nm)

View attachment 63188

View attachment 63187

See here, they can fit 2x the transistors in roughly the same area by stepping down from 16nm to 7nm

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localizer said:

Don’t really know, I heard it uses less antennas for same speed due to algorithm advancements making it better and cheaper. You would need to read their patents to understand the potential differences.

Also, having the largest patent portfolio also makes it cheaper from a royalties standpoint.

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To be honest, if the USA gets driven into a civil war after this election(given there state of the economy, this is almost a complete certainty) this talk about China not being able to catch up isn’t going to gel since right now if the world collapses into a depression (most western nations) and the only place that can help with your nations growth is China, a lot of nations are going to eventually take there technology elsewhere and help supply China in that manner to boost there economy regardless of what the USA says. My father did mention that something like this happened before, when super computer technology isn’t provided to China, not only did China manage to catch up eventually but a number of companies that helped did set up shop in different parts of the world to circumvent whatever ban is in place. Also considering that China is one of the biggest markets for new technologies, behind closed doors, many firms started creating back doors behind the media’s eyes to keep supply technology for profit. This is going to be especially true during the future financial collapse where these companies would still want to make money and if the US government is going to bar there way to tangible profits, they will find a way especially if the US loses its world reserve currency, they can and will leave the sinking ship entirely if this is no profit to be made is 95% of the people are so poor that can’t purchase there goods. It’s a two way street, on a Chinese channel they did mention that all the chips in the USA that cannot be sold to China (lots of them) had to be locked away in warehouses to be never sold and ultimately they lost lots of money from the USA governments actions. Hence if the US government cannot make up for all the profits lost, either these firms go bankrupt or they set up shop overseas to avoid the oversight of the US government. Either way, the USA is running out of time and if they cannot settle there problems in the next two months, the USA would for the price of stalling China’s chip development for a few years would lose the world reserve currency status (hence ensuring they cannot economically mess with other countries nor be able to fund wars in the near future) as well as becoming isolated due to the pandemic and also end up as a broken divided nation with food shortages and natural disaster all over the place with completely no plan to fixing any of there problems. If that is the price that China has to pay for now, I guess it isn’t too bad considering the options now

emblem21 said:

To be honest, if the USA gets driven into a civil war after this election(given there state of the economy, this is almost a complete certainty) this talk about China not being able to catch up isn’t going to gel since right now if the world collapses into a depression (most western nations) and the only place that can help with your nations growth is China, a lot of nations are going to eventually take there technology elsewhere and help supply China in that manner to boost there economy regardless of what the USA says. My father did mention that something like this happened before, when super computer technology isn’t provided to China, not only did China manage to catch up eventually but a number of companies that helped did set up shop in different parts of the world to circumvent whatever ban is in place. Also considering that China is one of the biggest markets for new technologies, behind closed doors, many firms started creating back doors behind the media’s eyes to keep supply technology for profit. This is going to be especially true during the future financial collapse where these companies would still want to make money and if the US government is going to bar there way to tangible profits, they will find a way especially if the US loses its world reserve currency, they can and will leave the sinking ship entirely if this is no profit to be made is 95% of the people are so poor that can’t purchase there goods. It’s a two way street, on a Chinese channel they did mention that all the chips in the USA that cannot be sold to China (lots of them) had to be locked away in warehouses to be never sold and ultimately they lost lots of money from the USA governments actions. Hence if the US government cannot make up for all the profits lost, either these firms go bankrupt or they set up shop overseas to avoid the oversight of the US government. Either way, the USA is running out of time and if they cannot settle there problems in the next two months, the USA would for the price of stalling China’s chip development for a few years would lose the world reserve currency status (hence ensuring they cannot economically mess with other countries nor be able to fund wars in the near future) as well as becoming isolated due to the pandemic and also end up as a broken divided nation with food shortages and natural disaster all over the place with completely no plan to fixing any of there problems. If that is the price that China has to pay for now, I guess it isn’t too bad considering the options now

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When was their last civil war?

t2contra said:

When was their last civil war?

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In the 1860s, at a time when the northern states fought the southern states in regards to the enslavement of the black people, something that has a reasonable potential of happening once again given that not only the black people are still being treated in a manner similar to slaves but many minorities along with even poorer white people are also treated in manners that are quite terrible given that they have lost there jobs and the government is already trying to cut their life line. Hence not matter the result of the election, if the government cannot offer a plan that can help these people and bring justice to all those in suffering, then there isn't going to be a happen ending for the USA and this time, they cannot escape the consequences nor can they rely on China to save there asses this time by buying there treasuries. No one is going to jump in front to protect them this time

emblem21 said:

In the 1860s, at a time when the northern states fought the southern states in regards to the enslavement of the black people, something that has a reasonable potential of happening once again given that not only the black people are still being treated in a manner similar to slaves but many minorities along with even poorer white people are also treated in manners that are quite terrible given that they have lost there jobs and the government is already trying to cut their life line. Hence not matter the result of the election, if the government cannot offer a plan that can help these people and bring justice to all those in suffering, then there isn't going to be a happen ending for the USA and this time, they cannot escape the consequences nor can they rely on China to save there asses this time by buying there treasuries. No one is going to jump in front to protect them this time

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A civil war is not realistic.

Even back in the days of black segregation, the worst it got to was a domestic Black Panther terrorist movement, which has died out

AndrewS said:

A civil war is not realistic.

Even back in the days of black segregation, the worst it got to was a domestic Black Panther terrorist movement, which has died out

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Hmm, that could be true, but still the chaos that is going to happen around election is going to be quite terrifying, given that now there is simply too many issues to solve and not even enough time. Plus 50+ million people unemployed without benefits is a true recipe for disaster that at no point in the US history is anywhere near that bad and given that food is going to be in short supply and there are so many guns to go around, there is a potential for a disaster that even a civil war cannot shake a stick at. heck would a vaccine even help at that point

emblem21 said:

Hmm, that could be true, but still the chaos that is going to happen around election is going to be quite terrifying, given that now there is simply too many issues to solve and not even enough time. Plus 50+ million people unemployed without benefits is a true recipe for disaster that at no point in the US history is anywhere near that bad and given that food is going to be in short supply and there are so many guns to go around, there is a potential for a disaster that even a civil war cannot shake a stick at. heck would a vaccine even help at that point

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In such a scenario, you're looking at riots rather than a civil war.

There won't be a civil war , but there will be never ending protest, rioting, random killings. Blowback has happen in the past , and it is happening again. This ain't hk...

AndrewS said:

A civil war is not realistic.

Even back in the days of black segregation, the worst it got to was a domestic Black Panther terrorist movement, which has died out

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It's not going to be like a typical Civil War with armies of soldiers and clearly defined political borders. Rather it is going to be more similar to the where you have the slow collapse of the political, social, and economic cohesion into dysfunction. Polarized between the (Leftist) Populares and Optimates (Conservatives) both sides increasingly turned to violence such as rioting or the murder of political candidates to advocate their political agendas.

These past few months in the US seem to mirror those things as violence becomes more widespread in society with militant political gangs start appearing more often in protests and other political events as a show of force to protect and deter the other side. With both sides increasingly becoming more radicalized (thanks to the media sensationalism) and heavily armed, the likelihood of miscalculation and unintentional escalation increases.

I'm particularly concerned . A lot of people don't seem to understand why this is a turning point because it looks like the far-left has declared war on the far-right. Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, and other far-right are going to look weak if they do not retaliate for the killing of on their own. Essentially we might just see the US turn into a giant gang turf war with random acts of terror like shootings or bombings of each other's peoples and neighborhoods. Since we've already had a few politicians and targeted and attacked in the past by domestic terrorism (e.g. and ), I can foresee the terrifying possibility of radical militant groups harassing voters to align to their political views during the 2020 election season. Friends and families have already been blocking each other based on political affiliation for sometimes but now its also being expressed on the streets.

As a Chinese-American, I'm terrified. Not only do we have to deal with the pandemic and economic recession but those two things may be subordinate issues to the social upheaval. and have been on the rise even in my neighborhood and the fact that there's a growing risk of being collateral damage in a nationwide gang war between radical elements in Democratic and Republican parties is not something I'm looking forwards to.

AndrewS said:

In such a scenario, you're looking at riots rather than a civil war.

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Depending on how wide spread the riots are, it would be quite difficult to solve since the ensuring chaos will make no 2 sides to them, just everyone out for themselves. Hence really the end result is going to be similar with a lot of suffering and not many people in leadership being capable in handling the crisis (Trump fanning the flame to prevent an election taking place, Biden not being a very strong candidate and having no real solution other then printing money, which only serves to make the problem worse.)