News on China's scientific and technological development.

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Foreign companies can spinoff divisions dedicated to supplying Chinese companies. Perhaps the DUV supply chain can be dedicated to China if US wants to use EUV exclusively . They would be stupid not to.
Hi localizer,

Do you think they will defy the US, especially Japan and SK?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
A ban on SMIC would have huge negative implications for Chinese tech industries as a whole.

There is no sugar coating this. In the short term, it would be devastating to many Chinese industries as the US has a total chokehold on key areas of chip design/manufacturing.

China needs to fight back and somehow force the US to reverse these bans, while buying time to develop domestic capabilities.
Domestic capabilities develop because of these bans; they are the engine and fuel. They must remain in place in order to keep the pressure needed for breakneck development speed. Without them, Chinese tech will still develop, but with decreased urgency; it will slow and in tech, speed of evolution is everything. Every dollar spent on US equipment powers American tech at the expense of Chinese speed, providing only an easier short term path for Chinese operations. Never sacrifice long term interest and momentum for short term comfort. These bans are Trump's gift to Chinese tech; savor them.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Trump is now threatening to blacklist SMIC. So behind the scene, he may use the threat as a bargaining chip to force CCP to sell ticktok for cheap.
First of all, why the word CCP? China is the name of the country.

Second of all, Trump has been making up all sorts of bargaining chip, so be it. Blacklist SMIC or whoever he want. If he believe he can win by banning this and that, he would NOT have come to negotiation table. At the worst case, the two countries would enter a cold war and mutually blocking one and another, China has experienced that before even hot wars, so be it.
 

machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Do not worry at all about SMIC/China because there are solutions, be that new lines with SMEE machines and work with Samsung, Tokyo Electron..

There are 2 major problems: chip for 5G base station & Kirin chip for smartphone.

We have discussed about base station, that there IS a solution from within China!
But for high-end chip for smartphone, new rules block any solution from within China,right?

But Huawei said there is a solution:
"Guo Ping further said that the crackdown on Kirin chips will create some difficulties for the high-end mobile phone business, but believes it can be resolved."

Which means the solution is Extraordinary, and it points to a likelihood of using Samsung chip.. but then if they could do this it means that Samsung chip is manufactured using non-US line! So the next logical question/thing is: Kirin can also be done via that Samsung line, right?

All in all, there are solutions.

The other option to consider is: buying equipments from Tokyo Electron to complement or back-up Chinese equipments.

US can't block Samsung or Tokyo Electron because US has published the BIS rules and these 2 companies are not violating these rules.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am not so sure about that When google cancel the google play store/mobile service on Huawei phone seem like the end of Huawei phone but Huawei was able to replace with Huawei app gallery and has seen success in Europe as subscription has balloon and developer rush to add app.
The best response that I have seen recently. A good example of "China goes forward with or without foreign tech" as the Chinese saying "the earth keeps on rotating without whoever".
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
If SMIC gets black listed, china still needs to ensure continuity of its IT sector over the 2 months before the November elections. Hopefully protests and direct action in the US can continue. There is real chance of extensive civil unrest, if it comes china can simply begin reverse engineering all technologies no-holds-bar while the US security forces are deployed against its citizens. Also, all agreements with US government become null and void, as China should recognize the biden administration immediately. I dont really care about whether Biden is anti-china or not, its more about not recognizing trump as the government of the US, hell I dont even care if Biden wins, I just hope he doesn't concede without a fight. Biden clearly does not want recognition to come from China, so we must duly give it to him anyways. It will be especially important to do it fast, so that trump/republicans truly believe biden is paid by china, and further deepen animosity between the two sides. At the same time, it is imperative that russia continues to meddle in the US elections to create a more favorable trump result, which obviously wouldn't be recognized by democrats.
You are assuming that China can only survive at the mercy of the new possible US president (Joe Biden). If you live on other's mercy, you won't have a life. Never make your plan based on the failure of your enemy, that is not a plan. You make plans to win the battle even if your enemy is focused and united and fight at their full strength.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
You are assuming that China can only survive at the mercy of the new possible US president (Joe Biden). If you live on other's mercy, you won't have a life. Never make your plan based on the failure of your enemy, that is not a plan. You make plans to win the battle even if your enemy is focused and united and fight at their full strength.

Joe Biden can (hopefully) buy China time though. China is at a critical stage in development and needs a gap filler for the transition towards tech dominance.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Joe Biden can (hopefully) buy China time though. China is at a critical stage in development and needs a gap filler for the transition towards tech dominance.
That is true, just like Bush Junior bought China more than ten trouble-free years. I would be happy if that happens again, but it is extremely dangerous if someone plans China's move based on that assumption, this is what I wanted to express in my post.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Any United States sanctions and bans on SMIC will be very damaging move. It effects will be long term and permanent for at least a generation, politically and economically speaking.

Technically speaking, no, this will be not the case, as that would be a great for China IC industries. This is like the two bombs and one satellite again, but this time already maybe 75% there at least!

A ban like this, would be close to a wartime sort of ban. No one goes around enforcing patents in wartime, even in fake wartime like now, who is going around enforcing patents when the Chinese will reverse engineer every single piece of IC machinery now.

This break in the technology chain, which is a break in technology relationships, will mean no patents enforcement, and no more business for some, like US companies. They will not be allowed to sell.

This is a true statement, that the United States will not sell semiconductors to the Chinese military. Now the United States has been moving a position not to sell semiconductors and related equipment to Chinese companies in strictly civilian consumer goods.

Naturally, China under the CCP will take that next step and will not care how long it will take to build two bombs and one satellite. In the case of the IC industry to bring it closer to TSMC, Samsung, ASLM, let's see in 5 years. Low end already done.

Bwahahahahahaha!

:oops:
 
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