News on China's scientific and technological development.

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Indeed, as we know from this forum and news, Huawei has at least 3 different semiconductor lines being set up for its 7nm chips:
1. A member here mentioned a line already set up in Beijing. Furthermore, another new line coming in with new SMEE machine.

2. It is reported that Samsung is working on a special line,
"South Korea's exports to China double these of the U.S., and Samsung has already set up a 7-nanometer chip production line with only Japanese and European equipment while hailing these sanctions on chip sales to Huawei as unacceptable"
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3. Unless Trump is now pressuring Japan to not sell machines to China,, it's likely companies in China are buying from Tokyo Electron,
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The United States does not have a monopoly in any of the ten stages of chip production, although Applied Materials, LAM Research and other American firms are market leaders in several areas. Tokyo Electron offers equipment for six of the ten stages.

This is the most notable paragraph of the Asian Times article...
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
I does not matter... They have got to try... They can certainly improve themselves much more than the current level at which they are... I believe that even the most China hating Indian nationalist realizes that they themselves could in future be the targets of a Western embargo or that of any country that possess sophisticated IC chip, chip equipment, and semiconductor materials manufacturing technology for whatever reason.
Yeah, no country should be a slave of another country just because they have a technology that another doesn't have and even more when the other country actively uses this technology to bully others. It is high time that China is able to produce there own chips just as India should be careful not to be used by other nations, like the USA to do there bidding.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
"In May 2020, the Commerce Department expanded these rules to require contract chip producers anywhere in the world who use US semiconductor equipment and technology to acquire its approval before producing chips designed by Huawei’s subsidiary HiSilicon which then go into Huawei products.

Because the US is a leader in global chip equipment and design software business, it will be difficult for Huawei to find workarounds.
...
Actually, more worrisome is the entire approach. A strategy of high-tech decoupling meant to weaken and isolate China’s semiconductor and telecom sectors, in fact, is likely to result in the opposite of what its advocates seek to achieve.

Such an approach would hurt the economies of the US and its allies and damage US national security as well.
...
According to the
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, US chip equipment firms, which have roughly 60,000 domestic employees, account for at least half of global production and in several areas are the only supplier. The US is even more dominant in chip design software, controlling 80% of the global market.

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With regards to the Asian Times article, as I said in a response to another poster's posting:

It is over. China will NEVER again revert to dependency on foreign chips, equipment, and materials used to make semiconductors and IC chips. China's self reliance with regards to gaining the capability of producing any high tech product worth producing is going full throttle and will never stop as long as China exists.
 

machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei, like any major companies, has plan A,B,C etc to battle out the 5G base station game.. (smartphone is important,too but secondary because Trump really wanted to kill Huawei 5G biz, right?)

In case if "all" semiconductor lines fail to work in year 2021 (and even 2022,too!), one option is to use a (older) 'Nokia' option as mentioned in WSJ below?

The only negative points are: more expensive and more power intensive, but the extra costs can be worked out with wireless operators by negotiating less service fees for the coming years etc.. anyway, it only covers for perhaps 1+ year, because you can bet by 2023 China will be successful in their 7nm nodes.


The 'Nokia' option would then convert Huawei SoC for 5G into FPGAs.

here is the background story:

"Nokia selected the type of chip it thought would work best before an important technical debate had been settled, Mr. Uitto said. A telecom-industry consortium that included Nokia hadn’t finalized the standards for how cellular antennas should communicate with phones and other devices.

Nokia had two options. One is called a “system-on-chip,” or SoC. Advantage: It is power efficient and cheap to make. Disadvantage: Once the chip is made, it is difficult to reprogram. If Nokia ordered a supply of SoC chips and then 5G standards didn’t support them, the company would have a bunch of useless chips.

The other option was the so-called field-programmable gate array, or FPGA, chip. Its advantage was flexibility. An FPGA can be reprogrammed after it goes into an antenna. Nokia could start making antennas with the chips, and wireless carriers could reprogram them to suit whatever 5G standards would be adopted later.

Nokia focused on the more expensive FPGA. When the development of 5G accelerated, and standards crystallized sooner than expected, around 2018, Nokia realized it had too many FPGA chips and not enough of the cheaper ones that Huawei and Ericsson had bet on.

The FPGA was like “buying a car with a lot of features that you don’t use,” said Sandro Tavares, Nokia’s head of mobile marketing. The SoC, meanwhile, “has exactly what you need, so you’re not spending that much money there.”

One European telecom executive said the price tag for certain Nokia equipment was double that of products by Huawei and Ericsson using the SoC chips. Nokia executives say the price difference for high-volume products was typically between 5% to 15%. Nokia products using the FPGA chip also used more energy, a downside for wireless carriers trying to cut down power consumption.

Earlier this year, Nokia released SoC-based products comparable to Huawei’s and Ericsson’s. Mr. Uitto said 35% of Nokia’s shipments this year will have SoC chips, a number that will be 100% by 2022.

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Skywatcher

Captain
Remember that the goal is not to spend more; it's to achieve as much as you can on what you spend. Other than that, this is not a bad post actually. It shows China's efficiency in its scientific march, how it commits and spends less but often can achieve comparable or more. It shows China's enormous potential waiting to be tapped into and that's what scares the US. Everybody has a long way to go but the Chinese move faster with greater ease, and are only now starting to crank up the pace. I'm proud of everything China has done but I never advocate for resting on past achievements.
The lead time for realizing results (especially quantity) from basic research investment is noticeably longer compared to commercial R&D.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Harbin Institute of Technology has developed a Ultra Precision Machine Tool which can produce the High Precison Optical Lens for the EUV Machine.

Changchun Institute has developed a 2 Mirror Projection Lens for the EUV Machine.

Apparently the Projection Lens (Optics) has been sucessfully developed.
 

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WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just heard from some Sources that all the Components of the EUV Machine has been developed.

Just waiting for the Systems Integrator SMEE to move ahead and assemble the Litho Machine.

Harbin Institute has developed a 150W DPP EUV Light Source.
Unfortunately the Light Source has a Short Life Span.
Because of this life span issue, SMEE is reluctant to use the DPP Light Source.
This is holding up the EUV Litho Project.

SMEE may be waiting for the LPP EUV Light Source to be released?
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just heard from some Sources that all the Components of the EUV Machine has been developed.

Just waiting for the Systems Integrator SMEE to move ahead and assemble the Litho Machine.

Harbin Institute has developed a 150W DPP EUV Light Source.
Unfortunately the Light Source has a Short Life Span.
Because of this life span issue, SMEE is reluctant to use the DPP Light Source.
This is holding up the EUV Litho Project.

SMEE may be waiting for the LPP EUV Light Source to be released?
Hi WTAN,

So introduction date 2022?
 
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