News on China's scientific and technological development.

galvatron said:

You have to understand the full situation first.

That is the intermediate solution, since smic can then make chips for many other Chinese or foreign customers like xiaomi, oppo, vivo etc. Getting rid of US technology altogether is the next step.

But since even tiktok and wechat are regarded as threats, they can make up any excuses. You can never have full solution, since they can always move the goal post.

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That's why we need to wait and see after the election which is only a few month away, to see how the political environment changes. This solution could work under another administration who is more influenced by lobbying, but it will not work in the current environment. Anyways this is an interim solution, the genie is out of the bottle, time to rip out US equipment as quickly as possible regardless of who is in power.

hi WTAN,

I sense no urgency and panic in Huawei even after this latest sanction, Are they really prepared and confident on their chip production schedule?

from cnTechPost

Huawei to launch Huawei Card, a digital credit card, on Sept 3
2020-08-19 18:57:24 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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Huawei said on its official forum that it will launch the Huawei Card on September 3 in Shenzhen, where users will witness the birth of the first Huawei digital credit card.

Huawei is now recruiting field experience users for the Huawei Card, with its poster reading "Huawei users' exclusive digital credit card”.


Huawei launched its new service, the Huawei Card using UnionPay standards, at the P40 series flagship phone launch on April 8.

It is a unique digital card product created by Huawei together with UnionPay and partner banks, with both digital and physical dual card attributes and integrated Huawei Pay payment service.
Each Huawei Card has a unique card number and is tied to a user's Huawei account. According to Huawei, it is protected by a financial-grade security chip/microkernel-based TEE OS and biometrics.


The Huawei Card is customized for cardholders with benefits including cash back, no annual fee for the first year, Huawei app benefits, and airport and high-speed rail lounges.


Huawei Card application, billing inquiry, card swipe, credit limit management, repayment, and other operations can be completed online.

Weaasel said:

If this is not made in China not using any US made components and US equipment, even if it is designed by Alibaba, then it is a BIG PROBLEM.

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What's interesting is not the Chip here but actually the RISC-V architecture that Alibaba has designed. Currently the architecture that all mobile professors use is ARM which a UK company that is also based in the US. Architecture is just code that translates instructions into circuit logic. So equipment is not an issue. RISC-V is also open source, meaning it exists in the public domain, so I doubt it's feasible to sanction?

hi Skywatcher,

I think the real victim of this sanction aside from the obvious Huawei, is all the Taiwanese company, TSMC (producer of chip), Mediatek and also Qualcomm.

ansy1968 said:

hi WTAN,

I sense no urgency and panic in Huawei even after this latest sanction, Are they really prepared and confident on their chip production schedule?

from cnTechPost

Huawei to launch Huawei Card, a digital credit card, on Sept 3
2020-08-19 18:57:24 GMT+8 | cnTechPost

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Huawei said on its official forum that it will launch the Huawei Card on September 3 in Shenzhen, where users will witness the birth of the first Huawei digital credit card.

Huawei is now recruiting field experience users for the Huawei Card, with its poster reading "Huawei users' exclusive digital credit card”.

Huawei launched its new service, the Huawei Card using UnionPay standards, at the P40 series flagship phone launch on April 8.

It is a unique digital card product created by Huawei together with UnionPay and partner banks, with both digital and physical dual card attributes and integrated Huawei Pay payment service.
Each Huawei Card has a unique card number and is tied to a user's Huawei account. According to Huawei, it is protected by a financial-grade security chip/microkernel-based TEE OS and biometrics.


The Huawei Card is customized for cardholders with benefits including cash back, no annual fee for the first year, Huawei app benefits, and airport and high-speed rail lounges.


Huawei Card application, billing inquiry, card swipe, credit limit management, repayment, and other operations can be completed online.

Click to expand...

I think they are confident that Trump will start making exceptions once the sanctions starts genuinely hurting U.S. businesses. Remember how they kept extending the deadline for Huawei gear in U.S. countryside?

siegecrossbow said:

I think they are confident that Trump will start making exceptions once the sanctions starts genuinely hurting U.S. businesses. Remember how they kept extending the deadline for Huawei gear in U.S. countryside?

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Hi siegecrossbow,

A very good observation, but this very strategy from my opinion is what causing Huawei its present problem, they should not rely on the goodwill of the American , especially Trump. hindsight is 20/20 They should focus on plan B which is going full IDM when they were first sanction 2 years ago.

WTAN said:

There are many steps in the production of Semiconductors and Lithgraphy is just one of the steps. There are many semiconductor machines used in the process of etching, Lithography, ion implantation, pvd, cvd, polishing, inspection and cleaning etc.

It is known that China now has a complete locally made production line for 28nm Chips. This uses the SMEE 28nm Litho machine. SMIC is now building a 28nm FAB in Beijing. Huawei will start building its own 28nm FAB soon as it is urgently needed.

Alot of new 14nm Semiconductor equipment will be introduced next year which will allow for a local 14nm production line.

The Chinese Govt will certainly now be spending more money on developing new Semiconductor Equipment with a goal to set up a local 7nm production line.

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7nm should be achievable sooner than later, because lithography can be done with the current generation of technology that uses excimer lasers. The problem is going past 7nm into 5nm, 3nm etc. Where the current excimer laser lithography isn't enough. Obviously this requires some creative solution to overcome.

But yeah I agree, lithography is usually the hardest part to master in the production process, but not necessarily the only blocker. However, it is really the only one that is monopolized by ASML which in turn uses US tech in its light source. I believe everything else can be sourced from Japan or elsewhere.

siegecrossbow said:

I think they are confident that Trump will start making exceptions once the sanctions starts genuinely hurting U.S. businesses. Remember how they kept extending the deadline for Huawei gear in U.S. countryside?

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Huawei isn't worried because Trump will be out of office soon. The new administration is stuffed with dark money from superpacs linked to chip equipment makers. Sooner or later these sanctions will be eased if not withdrawn. US chip equipment makers are threatening to leave the country to de-americanize their technology so they can access the world's largest market for chip equipment.

Kind of like when the US banned American satellites from being launched on Chinese rockets in the 90s. Basically a lot of companies moved to Europe and started marketing their satellites as non-US tech. And the US satellite industry which held 95% of the market share before the ban, now reduced to only 30%. This is going to happen with chip equipment as well.

Sanctions are a double edge sword. Why china has no commercial aircraft industry? Because America sells China Boeing planes. If China was sanctioned, then our commercial aircraft industry would be much more advanced.

ansy1968 said:

Hi siegecrossbow,

A very good observation, but this very strategy from my opinion is what causing Huawei its present problem, they should not rely on the goodwill of the American , especially Trump. hindsight is 20/20 They should focus on plan B which is going full IDM when they were first sanction 2 years ago.

Click to expand...

I think Huawei understands the importance of indigenization as much as the next person but it isn’t feasible to create entire supply chains out of scratch within the short timeframe of two years.

siegecrossbow said:

I think Huawei understands the importance of indigenization as much as the next person but it isn’t feasible to create entire supply chains out of scratch within the short timeframe of two years.

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Hi siegecrossbow,

Yup you are correct, Regarding equipment right now everything is available , Huawei may need time to operate it. About the SMIC, if they were able to produce chip using the SMEE equipment will they still be sanction is they produce it for Huawei. What I know is most of the SMIC equipment had American component to it, and maybe costly to replace it all.