News on China's scientific and technological development.

free_6ix9ine said:

That's not a solution. they will find an excuse to sanction SMIC. only solution is to get rid of US equipment.

Click to expand...

You have to understand the full situation first.

That is the intermediate solution, since smic can then make chips for many other Chinese or foreign customers like xiaomi, oppo, vivo etc. Getting rid of US technology altogether is the next step.

But since even tiktok and wechat are regarded as threats, they can make up any excuses. You can never have full solution, since they can always move the goal post.

free_6ix9ine said:

That's not a solution. they will find an excuse to sanction SMIC. only solution is to get rid of US equipment.

Click to expand...

Completely and utterly...

On a positive note

From JSCh (pakistan defense forum)

Alibaba Reports Their XT910 RISC-V Core To Be Faster Than An Arm Cortex-A73
Written by in on 18 August 2020 at 11:48 AM EDT.

A few weeks back Alibaba announced the "XT910" as the fastest RISC-V processor featuring 16 cores and clock speeds up to 2.5GHz while being manufactured on a 12nm node. This by far beats most RISC-V hardware currently available and now at this week's Hot Chips conference the Chinese company is reporting that the XT910 is faster than an Arm Cortex-A73.

Alibaba confirmed the XT910 as a TSMC 12nm FinFET design with clock speeds between 2.0GHz and 2.5GHz for this RISC-V 64-bit processor supporting the RISC-V 0.7.1 Vector Extension.

Benchmarks posted by Alibaba's T-Head organization put the XT910 faster than an Arm Cortex-A73 found within the Kirin 970 SoC in areas across automotive, consumer, networking, and telecom spaces.

Making this high performance RISC-V processor even more exciting is that Alibaba wants to engage with the open-source community but as of yet hasn't been opened up.

It will be interesting to see ultimately how open of a design the XT910 becomes and whether we end up seeing any of Alibaba's RISC-V hardware in the western markets. We've certainly been wanting to see a really performant RISC-V processor and this could quite possibly be it paired with great Linux support, but for now we'll just be cautiously optimistic until learning more.

galvatron said:

You have to understand the full situation first.

That is the intermediate solution, since smic can then make chips for many other Chinese or foreign customers like xiaomi, oppo, vivo etc. Getting rid of US technology altogether is the next step.

But since even tiktok and wechat are regarded as threats, they can make up any excuses. You can never have full solution, since they can always move the goal post.

Click to expand...

Can Xiaomi and Oppo be shamed into ditching US made chips and using only Chinese made chips or chips by other companies not using US made equipment or components?

Chinese consumers have the power to punish them for US cooperation by not buying their products. It is in Huawei's and the Chinese government's interests that they also learn how to design their own chips and be helped at that if they cannot do so or struggle to do so.

ansy1968 said:

On a positive note

From JSCh (pakistan defense forum)

Alibaba Reports Their XT910 RISC-V Core To Be Faster Than An Arm Cortex-A73
Written by

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in

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on 18 August 2020 at 11:48 AM EDT.

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A few weeks back Alibaba announced the "XT910" as the fastest RISC-V processor featuring 16 cores and clock speeds up to 2.5GHz while being manufactured on a 12nm node. This by far beats most RISC-V hardware currently available and now at this week's Hot Chips conference the Chinese company is reporting that the XT910 is faster than an Arm Cortex-A73.

Alibaba confirmed the XT910 as a TSMC 12nm FinFET design with clock speeds between 2.0GHz and 2.5GHz for this RISC-V 64-bit processor supporting the RISC-V 0.7.1 Vector Extension.

Benchmarks posted by Alibaba's T-Head organization put the XT910 faster than an Arm Cortex-A73 found within the Kirin 970 SoC in areas across automotive, consumer, networking, and telecom spaces.

Making this high performance RISC-V processor even more exciting is that Alibaba wants to engage with the open-source community but as of yet hasn't been opened up.

It will be interesting to see ultimately how open of a design the XT910 becomes and whether we end up seeing any of Alibaba's RISC-V hardware in the western markets. We've certainly been wanting to see a really performant RISC-V processor and this could quite possibly be it paired with great Linux support, but for now we'll just be cautiously optimistic until learning more.

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If this is not made in China not using any US made components and US equipment, even if it is designed by Alibaba, then it is a BIG PROBLEM.

ansy1968 said:

Hi WTAN,

Need you to explain in a layman term the significant of this breakthrough? and also what other local Semiconductor Equipment?

Click to expand...

There are many steps in the production of Semiconductors and Lithgraphy is just one of the steps. There are many semiconductor machines used in the process of etching, Lithography, ion implantation, pvd, cvd, polishing, inspection and cleaning etc.

It is known that China now has a complete locally made production line for 28nm Chips. This uses the SMEE 28nm Litho machine. SMIC is now building a 28nm FAB in Beijing. Huawei will start building its own 28nm FAB soon as it is urgently needed.

Alot of new 14nm Semiconductor equipment will be introduced next year which will allow for a local 14nm production line.

The Chinese Govt will certainly now be spending more money on developing new Semiconductor Equipment with a goal to set up a local 7nm production line.

ILikeChina said:

So the current SMIC 14nm process uses some tech from the USA and it can't help with the production of chips for phones? I remember that some phones were made with SMIC help for Huawei, is it still possible?

Click to expand...

With the new rules SMIC will no longer be able to supply Huawei with Chips as it uses American equipment and EDA and Parts.

I am sure Huawei will be stockpiling alot of 14nm Chips from SMIC in the meantime.

Huawei wil have to build its own 14nm FAB and produce its own Chips. Alot of locally made14nm Semiconductor equipment will be introduced next year which is good news for Huawei.

I think Huawei will be producing 14nm Chips faster than alot of people think.
If you look at the history of SMIC, Huawei was one of the companies that helped SMIC to develop its 14nm Finfet Chip design. So basically Huawei already has the design of the 14nm Chip. Huawei is basically waiting for the Semiconductor equipment from SMEE CETC etc. to be made available for production. I am also sure that there will be many Companies who will be more than willing to help Huawei in producing these Chips. Maybe Technology transfer and licensed production.

WTAN said:

There are many steps in the production of Semiconductors and Lithgraphy is just one of the steps. There are many semiconductor machines used in the process of etching, Lithography, ion implantation, pvd, cvd, polishing, inspection and cleaning etc.

It is known that China now has a complete locally made production line for 28nm Chips. This uses the SMEE 28nm Litho machine. SMIC is now building a 28nm FAB in Beijing. Huawei will start building its own 28nm FAB soon as it is urgently needed.

Alot of new 14nm Semiconductor equipment will be introduced next year which will allow for a local 14nm production line.

The Chinese Govt will certainly now be spending more money on developing new Semiconductor Equipment with a goal to set up a local 7nm production line.

Click to expand...

Hi WTAN,

From what I learn from you and others,

the SMEE 28nm Litho machine. SMIC is now building a 28nm FAB in Beijing. Huawei will start building its own 28nm FAB soon as it is urgently needed.

Are capable of producing 14nm and 7nm or even 5nm using multi-patterning technique?

WTAN said:

With the new rules SMIC will no longer be able to supply Huawei with Chips as it uses American equipment and EDA and Parts.

I am sure Huawei will be stockpiling alot of 14nm Chips from SMIC in the meantime.

Huawei wil have to build its own 14nm FAB and produce its own Chips. Alot of locally made14nm Semiconductor equipment will be introduced next year which is good news for Huawei.

I think Huawei will be producing 14nm Chips faster than alot of people think.
If you look at the history of SMIC, Huawei was one of the companies that helped SMIC to develop its 14nm Finfet Chip design. So basically Huawei already has the design of the 14nm Chip. Huawei is basically waiting for the Semiconductor equipment from SMEE CETC etc. to be made available for production. I am also sure that there will be many Companies who will be more than willing to help Huawei in producing these Chips. Maybe Technology transfer and licensed production.

Click to expand...

Hi WTAN,

Regarding 7nm as we discuss before SMIC will be using the EDA produce by Huawei, so the transition will be smooth, the really problem is the time of setting up the SMEE 28nm litho machine and learning how to use it , it may take 2 years to do that, hopefully Huawei had enough 5g chips to survive.

ansy1968 said:

Hi WTAN,

From what I learn from you and others,

the SMEE 28nm Litho machine. SMIC is now building a 28nm FAB in Beijing. Huawei will start building its own 28nm FAB soon as it is urgently needed.

Are capable of producing 14nm and 7nm or even 5nm using multi-patterning technique?

Click to expand...

The Litho Machine is the latest SMEE 22/28nm and is able to produce 7nm with multiple patterning. But how quickly Huawei is able to produce 14nm and 7nm will depend on the sophistication of the other Semiconductor equipment on the production line. For Eg: the etching, Ion Implanters Pvd, Cvd etc