News on China's scientific and technological development.

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Also, in terms of Fabs, it's not efficient for every company in China to build their own fab. We need one company that does fabrication, so everyone else can do chip design. Lazy companies like Oppo and Xiaomi never even bothered to design chips, the only reason SMIC is getting off the ground is that they are getting orders from domestic chip designers. If Oppo and Xiaomi and all the other assembly houses even bothered to design chips like 10 yrs ago and give some of that business to SMIC or another domestic fab, we would be in a way better position.

That is the difference between visionary and run of the mill manager You didn't read my post carefully The founder of Samsung bought the struggling semiconductor company against the wish of Samsung management who think like you. some time not all rational thinking is the right path You have to have a vision and has the gut to go against the grain be it profitable or common sense
 

SPOOPYSKELETON

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't think so Xiaomi, Oppo come way latter than Huawei Since they cannot source semi from domestic of course they have to buy from the west

Huawei and ren miss the boat because they are short term thinking instead of strategic thinking like Samsung founder
Yeah you cannot eliminate the fab equipment but if Huawei jump on the chance and funding SMIC 13 years ago to built FAb and patronize them by buying the chip A lot will be established by now like Talent, Semiconductor equipment , etc Or in other word building the ecosystem of semiconductor

You can't expect Ren to think ahead like that, especially since no one else was doing so. People's entire conception of history was different back then, which limited what was efficient or even possible.

Whats needed is rapid adaptation to the new course history has taken these past years instead of clinging to old l, outdated paradigms. In this sense, Xiaomi and OPPO deserve more blame for not believing Trump would use the full scale of American power against China, since these companies came of age when the strategic landscape was already changing and did nothing about it.

Huawei has already thought ahead as much as anyone can expect from a single company. It's everyone else that needs to catch up.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
My dream is if Alibaba can focus on developing architecture open source like RISC-V, SMIC on building chips, Huawei in designing chips for telecommunications and cell phone processors, and SMEE on lithography, and other companies handling photo resist, masks, etching, etc.

Each company needs to specialize in one thing and do it correctly.
You cant bootleg equipment, every asml machine is connected via the internet to ASML servers. If asml shuts off that connection. Your machine can't do anything.

Huawei having fabs makes no difference, building A chip industry is not the job of one firm. It is the job of multiple companies and also the governments. If your ship is sinking, you can bail out the water as fast as you can, but it will still sink if your teammates are not helping.

You really didn't get it do you Semiconductor equipment like SMIC cannot built equipment on their own they need cooperation of Client to design the process etc It is the client that design the process Semi eqpt company built the equipment based on the specification of their client. Now if SMIC has no client how they supposed to advance their design skill It is the question of chicken or egg first
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
You can't expect Ren to think ahead like that, especially since no one else was doing so. People's entire conception of history was different back then, which limited what was efficient or even possible.

Whats needed is rapid adaptation to the new course history has taken these past years instead of clinging to old l, outdated paradigms. In this sense, Xiaomi and OPPO deserve more blame for not believing Trump would use the full scale of American power against China, since these companies came of age when the strategic landscape was already changing and did nothing about it.

Huawei has already thought ahead as much as anyone can expect from a single company. It's everyone else that needs to catch up.

I agree, huawei cannot alone solve this problem. Samsung was competing in a different era and time.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
You can't expect Ren to think ahead like that, especially since no one else was doing so. People's entire conception of history was different back then, which limited what was efficient or even possible.

Whats needed is rapid adaptation to the new course history has taken these past years instead of clinging to old l, outdated paradigms. In this sense, Xiaomi and OPPO deserve more blame for not believing Trump would use the full scale of American power against China, since these companies came of age when the strategic landscape was already changing and did nothing about it.

Huawei has already thought ahead as much as anyone can expect from a single company. It's everyone else that needs to catch up.

What you mean no one else doing it he just has to read the story of Samsung founder to get vision of how to run high tech company The LEE family of Samsug has no precedent too.That is why we call visionary and run of the mill manger like REn
 

SPOOPYSKELETON

Junior Member
Registered Member
Personally, I don't think decoupling is the right solution. If China was actually willing to strike back against America for these semicon sanctions, then there would be no need for decoupling. China would have the dominant position the relationship, which obviously suits her well.

Instead, what is needed is an expansion of options to make retaliation more effective. Current options such as the rare earth card are not used for a reason.

In order to expand options, the battlefield, or various fronts on which the competition is being waged, should also be expanded. Ideally, China would become more involved in areas around America's weak spots, so as to better apply pressure. The Middle East is of course dear to America's heart. I think there are many possibilities there.

But doing this requires diplomatic clout and savvyness that is not evident in the PRCs current conduct. I would mark the development of covert soft power as a priority as a result.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
You really didn't get it do you Semiconductor equipment like SMIC cannot built equipment on their own they need cooperation of Client to design the process etc It is the client that design the process Semi eqpt company built the equipment based on the specification of their client. Now if SMIC has no client how they supposed to advance their design skill It is the question of chicken or egg first

That's what I said, had Oppo, Huawei or Xiaomi done more to support company like SMIC and SMIC supported domestic equipment makers, we would be in a way better position. SMIC sucks because it had no customers, SMEE sucks because it had no customers.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Personally, I don't think decoupling is the right solution. If China was actually willing to strike back against America for these semicon sanctions, then there would be no need for decoupling. China would have the dominant position the relationship, which obviously suits her well.

Instead, what is needed is an expansion of options to make retaliation more effective. Current options such as the rare earth card are not used for a reason.

In order to expand options, the battlefield, or various fronts on which the competition is being waged, should also be expanded. Ideally, China would become more involved in areas around America's weak spots, so as to better apply pressure. The Middle East is of course dear to America's heart. I think there are many possibilities there.

But doing this requires diplomatic clout and savvyness that is not evident in the PRCs current conduct. I would mark the development of covert soft power as a priority as a result.

The best retaliation is full on war. Trump doesn't care about economics. If China took Taiwan that would send the message home.

Soft power revolves around buying off countries, thats easy if you have the global currency and a massive military to offprotection. prote
 

SPOOPYSKELETON

Junior Member
Registered Member
What you mean no one else doing it he just has to read the story of Samsung founder to get vision of how to run high tech company The LEE family of Samsug has no precedent too.That is why we call visionary and run of the mill manger like REn

I meant no one in China was attempting to build a full stack for semiconductors.

Hindsight is 2020, and while it's obvious to people now that the US is not interested in allowing China's full developer, that was not the case 10, 20 years ago.

It was assumed, under the "End of History" paradigm, that China would be integrated into the world market and that globalism would reign supreme.

That is obviously not so certain now.
 
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