News on China's scientific and technological development.

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Ehhh, what drive?
The largest in the world; the elephant in the room you want to ignore by staring into a corner. What elephant/Chinese chips? I don't have it in my hand, so it's not real! LOL
China reached the 90nm in 2016 before the sanctions started, and no progress has been made since then.

SMIC still buys from ASML while even Huawei is still dependent on US licenses.

Meanwhile companies like Microsoft and Google (with Chrome) still run rampant in China.

China lost global market share in semiconductors in 2021 and announced far less Capex than Taiwanese or US companies.

China is more dependent than ever and becoming even more dependent every day.
Failing to read does not indicate something doesn't exist. Shoving your head in the sand doesn't mean that the world around you doesn't move. With all of China's advances listed here for you, the only way you would come to such a conclusion is from sheer hope. Even the most rampant China-hawk wouldn't make statements as divorced from reality as yours; they say more must be done to prevent China's inevitable rise in semiconductors.
As long as the US follows the strategy defined by the author, this will not change. Chinas only hope is that Trump returns to power in 2025 and issues an arbitrary and sudden sweeping ban all semiconductors exports to China that is strictly enforced. If that happens China will progress rapidly.
China's tech future does not depend on the US or Trump; all of China's power comes from within. Trump and the US can squirm all they like but they cannot compete with Chinese advancements.
 
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supercat

Major

Chinese-born maths genius leaves Harvard to help China become a powerhouse on subject​


  • Yau Shing-Tung, the first Chinese winner of the prestigious Fields Medal, will be chair professor in mathematics at Tsinghua University
  • 73-year-old aims to ‘take over the torch’ passed down by late teacher and modern geometry pioneer Chern Shiing-shen

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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
China's current nominal per capita GDP is about 20k, nowhere near the rich nations, but some Chinese internet warriors are already full of it.
And? At least those Chinese internet warriors are relegated to just that: the internet. Whereas in America and the entire collective west, the redditors, or social media justice warriors/virtue signaling nuns can't be distinguished from their political, business, and military leaders. Donald Trump, Fat/Skinny Pompeo, Dutton the Muppet, Boris Johnson the wannabe Churchill with a bad hair like, Josef Borell, E.U. President Vad Der lying all the time. And now you have Elensky the comedian being hailed as some kind of 21st century Churchill which is a joke.

Unless I have been missing out on Pres.Xi or Premiere Le Keqiang, or Vice Xu Qiliang making not just provocative, bellicose statements then your comments have some merit. In reality the Chinese leaders have been measured, even keeled with their statements, and actions despite the persistent provocations from the U.S. So no I disagree with your equivocation. It's just not at all remotely comparable.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
And? At least those Chinese internet warriors are relegated to just that: the internet. Whereas in America and the entire collective west, the redditors, or social media justice warriors/virtue signaling nuns can't be distinguished from their political, business, and military leaders. Donald Trump, Fat/Skinny Pompeo, Dutton the Muppet, Boris Johnson the wannabe Churchill with a bad hair like, Josef Borell, E.U. President Vad Der lying all the time. And now you have Elensky the comedian being hailed as some kind of 21st century Churchill which is a joke.

Unless I have been missing out on Pres.Xi or Premiere Le Keqiang, or Vice Xu Qiliang making not just provocative, bellicose statements then your comments have some merit. In reality the Chinese leaders have been measured, even keeled with their statements, and actions despite the persistent provocations from the U.S. So no I disagree with your equivocation. It's just not at all remotely comparable.

Internet warriors, for sure, do not wield as much clout as the big shots like those you mentioned. But they can still cause damage to China's reputation, though not to its policies. Having a bad reputation is not helpful. Nobody wants a bad rap, but it is something the West has been trying to pass on to China.

So I disagree with equivocation also, but let's agree to disagree.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
And? At least those Chinese internet warriors are relegated to just that: the internet. Whereas in America and the entire collective west, the redditors, or social media justice warriors/virtue signaling nuns can't be distinguished from their political, business, and military leaders. Donald Trump, Fat/Skinny Pompeo, Dutton the Muppet, Boris Johnson the wannabe Churchill with a bad hair like, Josef Borell, E.U. President Vad Der lying all the time. And now you have Elensky the comedian being hailed as some kind of 21st century Churchill which is a joke.

Unless I have been missing out on Pres.Xi or Premiere Le Keqiang, or Vice Xu Qiliang making not just provocative, bellicose statements then your comments have some merit. In reality the Chinese leaders have been measured, even keeled with their statements, and actions despite the persistent provocations from the U.S. So no I disagree with your equivocation. It's just not at all remotely comparable.

Internet warriors, for sure, do not wield as much clout as the big shots like those you mentioned. But they can still cause damage to China's reputation, though not to its policies. Having a bad reputation is not helpful. Nobody wants a bad rap, but it is something the West has been trying to pass on to China.

So I disagree with equivocation also, but let's agree to disagree.

To be honest I don't see that many "Chinese internet warriors". Go to youtube, facebook, twitter (some there for sure but nowhere near as many as Western internet warriors), reddit, and the comments section of any publication. You will find at best one or two voices speaking for China and from a non-extremist approach. The vast majority of comments are delusionally inaccurate and downright China hating. So this fear of "bad reputation" isn't determined, reversed, or made worse by the presence of "Chinese internet warriors" who are far and few in between anyway and usually Chinese diaspora or westerners who have been to China, worked closely with Chinese people etc and of course only a fraction of that group who feel inclined to speak out for it I guess.

As for GDP per capita, I think $20,000 USD is incredibly high. I honestly thought it was around $9,000 USD to the $10K mark.

One has to remember that the only "large" population nation that is in that list is the US which is totally developed and industrialised and has been for a long time. It has also been the economic superpower for the last 70 years and it's not even at the top of the per capita list because small populations (of developed industrialised nations) skew it quite a bit. With large populations usually come greater nominal capacity for science, tech, industry e.g. USA vs Korea or Japan US has considerably higher capacity for this due to access to a much greater funding and talent pool (despite Korea and Japan doing enormously well in any measure regardless). While larger populations also have their drawbacks - people are left behind.

Compare India and China for per capita and the picture is clearer. India is around $2K and China around $20K. And this is China having half its population as working age while India's got over 70% of its population in working age.

India's rupee loses value over time. $2K is in USD already so alright whatever. China's RMB is significantly devalued for export competitiveness. If it were floated properly (and with consistently high and now even more newer demand for RMB), China's economic size measured in USD almost doubles. US GDP includes so many ridiculous FIRE sector accounting while China's local politicians like pumping up their numbers but the nation is considered to under reports GDP. It's strategically important for China to under report GDP if anything. It just attracts all the wrong kinds of attention and brings it no favours for looking wealthier than it is or as wealthy as it really is. There are even American fund managers and commentators who consider the US GDP to be truly overstated because it counts plenty of non-productive things as GDP. I really doubt China does this when it's strategy is to do the exact opposite not to mention it's actually important and beneficial for China to under report.

When China overtakes on paper and people realise, the gap between would be convincing to even semi-woke and observant people.

China's reported $20K GDP per cap (adjusted for PPP) now is if anything understated (to avoid unwanted attention and action), and this is higher than I thought it would be because China has about half its population not working full time due to older age and lower education standards from previous generations (for the majority). It is also with a severely devalued RMB.

Adjust for both these factors to a Western nation (as long as not Japan or South Korea who have similarly low birth rates and high aging population) and adjust for RMB, it's approaching the developed and industrialised league.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
To be honest I don't see that many "Chinese internet warriors". Go to youtube, facebook, twitter (some there for sure but nowhere near as many as Western internet warriors), reddit, and the comments section of any publication. You will find at best one or two voices speaking for China and from a non-extremist approach. The vast majority of comments are delusionally inaccurate and downright China hating. So this fear of "bad reputation" isn't determined, reversed, or made worse by the presence of "Chinese internet warriors" who are far and few in between anyway and usually Chinese diaspora or westerners who have been to China, worked closely with Chinese people etc and of course only a fraction of that group who feel inclined to speak out for it I guess.

As for GDP per capita, I think $20,000 USD is incredibly high. I honestly thought it was around $9,000 USD to the $10K mark.

One has to remember that the only "large" population nation that is in that list is the US which is totally developed and industrialised and has been for a long time. It has also been the economic superpower for the last 70 years and it's not even at the top of the per capita list because small populations (of developed industrialised nations) skew it quite a bit. With large populations usually come greater nominal capacity for science, tech, industry e.g. USA vs Korea or Japan US has considerably higher capacity for this due to access to a much greater funding and talent pool (despite Korea and Japan doing enormously well in any measure regardless). While larger populations also have their drawbacks - people are left behind.

Compare India and China for per capita and the picture is clearer. India is around $2K and China around $20K. And this is China having half its population as working age while India's got over 70% of its population in working age.

Less than 15% of global population live in countries with higher GDP per capita than China. Also keep in mind that China makes up a significant chunk of global population. As China's GDP per capita goes up, so does the global average.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Internet warriors, for sure, do not wield as much clout as the big shots like those you mentioned. But they can still cause damage to China's reputation, though not to its policies. Having a bad reputation is not helpful. Nobody wants a bad rap, but it is something the West has been trying to pass on to China.

So I disagree with equivocation also, but let's agree to disagree.
attitude of westerners towards Chinese is independent of the presence or absence of internet warriors.
 
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