News on China's scientific and technological development.

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Except it’s not. Tech decoupling is bad for both US and China, but it’s obviously worse for China given that US is still stronger overall. China needs to attract global talent, build up an alliance system for international cooperation in R&D.
Tech decoupling? What they are going to "decouple"? Nasa and China don't even work together, China had to develop their own GNSS system because the U.S. force the Europeans against their will under the threat of export controls to not work with China.
They are going to increase their export controls more? because every time the U.S up their export controls to China, U.S companies always end in the losing end, losing business to other companies. One example was how U.S. export controls destroyed the U.S. small drone industry and give rise to DJI, while 3DR was only able to export to a few countries, DJI was able to export to rest of the world, or when the U.S lost their machine tools business to Germany and Japan because their unwilling to soft their export controls, RIGTH NOW their is big debate whatever they should increase sanctions to SMIC because U.S. SME and EDA companies could be the biggest losers.
Apart from that, math is math, here and in the other end of the universe, so unless U.S. decide to censor their fundamental research to the rest of the world and risk becoming irrelevant nation in science, is almost impossible to stop knowledge to reach most of the world.
Chinese companies are part of most international technological standards, including U.S. born ones, their patents and knowledge fuel those standards. Not because the "CCP" wants but because is business, standards are a equalizer for everyone. RISC-V move to Switzerland to avoid interference, that action just tell you the nature of the modern world.
And there is a million more variables that Social "Science" experts do not understand over the modern technological landscape.
The only reason Chinese private companies should "De-Americanize" their commercial products as much as possible is to shield themselves from irrational sanctions from overzealous politicians and the possible comeback of Donald Trump. Force U.S. companies to create products less susceptible to this politicians.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
-Because China is behind.
Being second in some technological area is not being "behind"
-is capital starved
I dont think so.
-has to face technology denial of intermediary products.
That will be difficult if not impossible to implement, tech controls usually are implemented taking account the controlled country capability
or risking losing that market and creating competition. That is the reason why ASML is able to sell Arfi litho machines, is because China just give a hint of capability of making their own and ASML wont risk losing that market or allow unwanted competition.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Yes and for right now, China's basic/fundamental research capabilities have been weak and obviously improving them takes a while
Weaker compared to its more cutting edge tech but quickly being addressed, which, I guess "takes a while" can't be wrong on, whatever that means.
Fiscal restraints, labor constraints, bottleneck tech: there's a lot preventing rapid growth
Fiscal and labor contstraints are for the West. China's STEM population and funding are top in the world. Breaking bottleneck tech is the goal, many of which have been overcome, not a constraint. The main obstacle is necessity; where the drive was lacking, it lacks no more since America's gaffs at challenging China. Hence, there is nothing preventing rapid growth because we are seeing rapid growth in China.
Could fail yet not a single data point given
You cherry pick opinions, so here's one I picked. Your article could not only fail; it is pointed to fail by all macro trends.

"Yesterday, China’s National Bureau of Statistics announced that Chinese semiconductor output increased by 33% last year, which was double the growth rate achieved a year earlier. "

Here's a data point in the article. Learn to read next time.
US market shares have remained stable: China just cannibalizes other low-value sectors.
You're responding only to the title displayed, which is not the correct title once you open the article. And I even specifically said you need to open the links ofr #2 and 3 to get the right title, tsk tsk. China is shifting from low-value to high value, high tech so I guess that's correct. But overall, Chinese growth always trumps American growth so they'll have to do way better than remain stable to hold off China.
Because China is behind
In some areas, ahead already in others.
, is capital starved
Never heard of this before. When China has a budget, it is unrivalled in the world. When the US tries to make a budget, Dems and Republicans rip each others nuts off until it becomes a cheap little peice of crap. And then the number comes out and to China, it sounds like Dr. Evil asking for 1 million dollars from the White House.
and has to face technology denial of intermediary products while the rest of the world can use intermediary products to keep building and pushing ahead.
And yet they move slower than China. It really shows how much power there is in that population.
And ofc, the rest of the world can brain drain global talents for their nationalistic purposes.
And China can brain drain back/brain circulate when those Chinese people have become experience and talented past their abroad study period. The more xenophobic and racist the US becomes, the easier it gets for China, and the more China grows, the more racist and xenophobic the US becomes.
Cherry pick: this was getting to the specifics of a report put out by Peking University, a university in China
Well, my articles are written by institutions in America. There's an article quoting ASML's CEO that China will make anything you deny them. China's psychology game is on point; it uses actual military guys to publically say that J-20 won't fly until 2020 and that it just hopes to be Eurofighter level; the US pops open the champagne, nixed the F-22, then 2016, a full blown stealth fighter takes to the sky. Cherry pick means to select one source or only sources that say what you want, and it doesn't matter what it is. It is the opposite of analyzing big data, which shows China always innovating what it was denied and always moving faster than the rest of the world in tech.
 
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The Peking University report mentioned that China was behind in most fields
Less every year. A decade ago, China was behind in all fields. A decade later, it will be few, then none. That's a macro trend.
Why does China oppose US capital controls so much?
Not aware of China being opposed to US domestic policy; post the link. Why was to US opposed to MIC2025 so much? Fear.

What does this have to do with Chinese capital? Nothing.
Not really. The US just needs to deny China access to EUVL while selling ArF immersion and now, instead of China working towards improving nanofabrication technology, it needs to work towards remaking an existing ArF immersion and then making the EUV lithography machine while the rest of the world is able to play with the newest digital designs on the newest nanofabricated integrated circuits and work on their own computing and software concepts that are thustly denied to China.
Macro trend repeating: the US sees China is behind on something, tried tech denial hoping that the world can snowball forward leaving China behind in its own efforts, then China emerges ahead, just like in exascale supercomputers. Happened previously with satellites too. Exact same pattern restarting. The US always desperately ascribes to the false logic that if A is ahead of B, B can never catch up because by the time B gets to where A is, A will have moved forward. It's hope against hope because in the real world, faster objects come from behind to overtake slower ones all the time. Macro trends always trump small hopes and cherry-picked data/articles/opinions.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Peking University report mentioned that China was behind in most fields.
Maybe is a lost in translation but that means nothing. Behind who? How far? its says nothing. Honduras is behind is most Areas .
Why does China oppose US capital controls so much?
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In fact they are trying to regulate that because the fear of a bubble forming in the tech sector.
Not really. The US just needs to deny China access to EUVL while selling ArF immersion and now, instead of China working towards improving nanofabrication technology, it needs to work towards remaking an existing ArF immersion and then making the EUV lithography machine while the rest of the world is able to play with the newest digital designs on the newest nanofabricated integrated circuits and work on their own computing and software concepts that are thustly denied to China.
nanofabrication? You mean semiconductor manufacturing? hear me now and quote me later, at the HINT that the Chinese have a SEMI-WORKING EUV machine, ASML will be shipping theirs next day.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
They are so capital starved that Chinese startups just dominated the list of funding in AI and Semiconductors.
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They are so capital starved that while the U.S is having trouble deciding to 50billions dollars into their semiconductor industry, The Chinese already putting dozen of billions dollars into theirs.
That's poorly phrased. It's 94 companies raising $5 billion collectively in December 2021.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Schrödinger’s China:

-China: Will technologically surpass us and enslave us with their alien technology, therefore it is okay to overreact.

-Also China: The most technologically backward nation on the planet, they cannot innovate and they will always be going to be FAR behind and although it seems that they are a little closer to here in reality they are too FAR away to catch up, now let's laugh at their inferiority.
 
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