*New J-10 Thread*

Status
Not open for further replies.

LIGO

New Member
BTW, 10sec to get from a "being chased" into a "chase position", as tphuang quoted, wouldn't that be rather fast against a Su-30? Well on the other hand 10s can be pretty long in a dogfight. How long does such a manuever take "normally"?

I think the original Chinese article means that J-10 went from being in a neutral position to an advantageous position. (均势 means neutral, not emergency or being chased.) Though I don't know what maneuver is "水平瞬指" ---- direct translation gives "horizontal instantaneous pointing", which is obviously nonsense...
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Not sure if I'm nitpicking now or didn't understand you correct. I always thought that thin gold layer on the canopies was there to deflect incoming radar waves in all directions. But not to let them through the canopy where those rdr-waves would hit the ejection seat wich is a rather good rdr reflector.
Never heard that there's actually RAM on the canopies, especially gold won't absorb radar anyway.
Golden canopies seem to be pretty standart lately.

sorry, I meant more of a radar dispersion film rather than a radar absorbant.

I think the original Chinese article means that J-10 went from being in a neutral position to an advantageous position.
yeah, sorry, my Chinese is not that good.

Also, in light of finding that J-10's radar can track 10 targets and engage 4 targets concurrently, I looked a little into the much talked about APG-68V9 equipping block 50/52+ F-16s

got my information from here.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These are just the A2A modes
APG-68(V)9雷达的空对空工作模式: 大范围测距搜索模式(ERS): 该工作模式取代了以前APG-68雷达的“边搜索边测距”模式(RWS),“上视搜索”模式(ULS)和“测距过程中的速度探测”模式(VSR)
 边扫描边跟踪模式(TWS):该工作模式能够区分和跟踪10个空中目标,并同时对其他空中目标进行探测。
 多目标分辨认知模式(MTS):该工作模式能够对多达4个目标进行高质量跟踪,并具有同时搜索其他目标的能力。
 单目标跟踪模式(STT):该工作模式可以对1个空中目标进行高质量的跟踪。
 先进中距空对空导弹数据链:可以在TWS,MTS和STT工作模式下为多达6枚中距导弹提供制导。
 空战机动模式(ACM):该工作模式可以在高地面杂波环境下对近距离的目标进行自动捕获。
The modes include ERS - enhanced range search - supposedly better than previous modes like Range while search, up-look search and velocity search range. Haven't heard of this before, it would be interesting looking this up.
TWS - track while search, says it is capable of tracking 10 aerial targets, and also scanning other aerial targets
MTS - multiple target search, can performa high level tracking against 4 targets, I guess, this is needed to concurrently engage multiple targets?
STT - Single target tracking, perform high level tracking vs one target.
Advanced datalink with MRAAM - in TWS, MTS and STT mode, can provide targetting information for 6 medium ranged AAMs
ACM - aerial combat mode - not too sure about this.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


2007-02-01 09:34:58 点击:1125

今日空军猛图:首见空3S之10746#。。。长兴的J10达到26架


考古


Claims a new J-10 is received for the 3rd Division, making it the 26th. I am wondering what the total overall number will be.

The modes include ERS - enhanced range search - supposedly better than previous modes like Range while search, up-look search and velocity search range. Haven't heard of this before, it would be interesting looking this up.
TWS - track while search, says it is capable of tracking 10 aerial targets, and also scanning other aerial targets
MTS - multiple target search, can performa high level tracking against 4 targets, I guess, this is needed to concurrently engage multiple targets?
STT - Single target tracking, perform high level tracking vs one target.
Advanced datalink with MRAAM - in TWS, MTS and STT mode, can provide targetting information for 6 medium ranged AAMs
ACM - aerial combat mode - not too sure about this.

Different manufacturers have different names for modes that seem functionally similar. Sometimes you have to match one jargon vs. another. For example, NIIP doesn't call their TWS as TWS but they certainly has some form of 10 target tracking mode.

I have not heard of Extended Range Search before. Velocity Search is something seen in more recent radars, and its basically a "cheat" TWS. I call it a cheat because some are quoting tracking numbers and tracking ranges based on this mode rather than true TWS. In VS, the number of targets tracked is double of that of TWS, and the range is longer. But VS only gives less information per target, mainly velocity.

MTS sounds like the F-16's Situational Awareness mode? Or TWS "bugged" mode? There is a mode where out of the targets tracked, the most threatening ones are priortized and bracketed, so you are tracking the ones most threatening to you.

ACM must be your standard dogfighting modes that are lumped into a single jargon. They usually include Boresight, where the radar just lights up everything ahead of it, and Vertical Scan, where the radar scans in a large vertical band from top to bottom. Finally there is gunsight mode.

The way it sounds here, the plane can engage 6 targets simultaneously on TWS using six missiles with one missile per target, 4 on MTS but at least two of the targets can be engaged with two missiles each, and with STT, perhaps a many as six missiles against a single target.
 

balance

Junior Member
Sorry to interrupt the conversation.
Since my question is about J-10, I'll put if forward here.

What do you guys think about the comment of a Chinese official that J-10 surpass F-16 ini capability?
Do you think this is real, or just business-oriented comment (just to attract customers)?

Please advise
 

optionsss

Junior Member
maybe after PAF accquired some F-10's of their own, they might do some training of that sort. but then it would be PAF's J-10 vs their own F-16s, I am sure both the US and China would not sell their latest and best technology
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Sorry to interrupt the conversation.
Since my question is about J-10, I'll put if forward here.

What do you guys think about the comment of a Chinese official that J-10 surpass F-16 ini capability?
Do you think this is real, or just business-oriented comment (just to attract customers)?

Please advise

The Chinese are suspected of having access to a F-16 that came through Pakistani hands, and China and Pakistan are major allies, and Pakistan does have F-16's, so there is a very good chance of China at least having a decent look at examples in Pakistani service.
 

Aliph Ahmed

New Member
maybe after PAF accquired some F-10's of their own, they might do some training of that sort. but then it would be PAF's J-10 vs their own F-16s, I am sure both the US and China would not sell their latest and best technology

.....and I am sure that you are TOTALLY wrong. Pakistan has a different meaning for both China and USA.

China has no issues with Pakistan and neither do they see one arising in the future Whereas, USA does.

For China, a strong Pakistan that will be a backup route for her oil and a hanging sword on the head of Indians is a blessing.

As long as Pakistan is militarily strong, India can only dream (half heartedly) to instigate China and will not have the balls to look China eye to eye.

Therefore, It is in the interest of China to see a militarily strong Pakistan and for that China will not think twice about selling her high end technology no matter how much India beg or cry or whine about it.

On the side : Chinese pilots can always be in PAF F-20s Vs PAF F-16s in a dog fight scenario.
 
Last edited:

optionsss

Junior Member
.....and I am sure that you are TOTALLY wrong. Pakistan has a different meaning for both China and USA.

China has no issues with Pakistan and neither do they see one arising in the future Whereas, USA does.

For China, a strong Pakistan that will be a backup route for her oil and a hanging sword on the head of Indians is a blessing.

As long as Pakistan is militarily strong, India can only dream (half heartedly) to instigate China and will not have the balls to look China eye to eye.

Therefore, It is in the interest of China to see a militarily strong Pakistan and for that China will not think twice about selling her high end technology no matter how much India beg or cry or whine about it.

On the side : Chinese pilots can always be in PAF F-20s Vs PAF F-16s in a dog fight scenario.

I am sure China really wants to maintain their tie with Pakistan as much as they can. That's why China let Pakistan to produce the JH-17 on their own. Then on the other side, JH-17 clearly does not describe the best Chinese has to offer. Look at it this way, if JH-17 with enter service with PAF by 2009, then maybe after that we will see some J-10's. it may not be degraded from current ones, but will China add all the upgrades they gonna put on J-10 during that time? I don't see why they would. I mean US would only the degraded F-35 to her allies, not even talking about the F-22s.
 

Aliph Ahmed

New Member
I am sure China really wants to maintain their tie with Pakistan as much as they can. That's why China let Pakistan to produce the JH-17 on their own. Then on the other side, JH-17 clearly does not describe the best Chinese has to offer. Look at it this way, if JH-17 with enter service with PAF by 2009, then maybe after that we will see some J-10's. it may not be degraded from current ones, but will China add all the upgrades they gonna put on J-10 during that time? I don't see why they would. I mean US would only the degraded F-35 to her allies, not even talking about the F-22s.

First of all, China is not like USA. She dont sell with political strings attached.

Secondly, if you look at her arms trade history specially with respect to Pakistan, you will notice that Pakistan always procured the best of what China had to offer and even further upgraded them on occasions. One example being F-7 PGs, Missiles and so on....

If China has a concern with respect to concealing or classifying the true abilities of F-20s and Pakistan can satisfy those, then there is no reason why China will not sell. and Yes, China will add all those upgrades and even more on the PAF F-20s because with Gawadar port operationalizing, Pakistan is like a back door to China. Meaning a country of great strategic importance and did I say a hanging sword over the Indians ?

Thirdly and lastly, If you read this very topic on J-10s from page 01, you will notice that J-10s has turned out to be way better then what had been expected of it initially.

JF-17s were never meant to be a frontline fighter planea in PAF planning. JF-17s are to form the backbone replacing F-7s, A-5s and Mirages. JF-17s are better then anything except for the current PAF F-16s, that Pakistan have. They are to from the Low and F-20s and new F-16s if delivered will form the high end frontline planes. 2 JF-17s are to be delivered to Pakistan on 10th of March 2007. So I leave it upto your wiseness to calculate how long before atleast a squadron is in service. Definitely not 2009. :)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top