New J-10 thread II

[crobato]

The J-10 regiment in the 3rd Division is probably the 8th. The 7th Regiment is the one with Su-30MKKs.

The planes of the 3rd Test Regiment should be around 18. These are the planes numbered 01, 02 and 03 for basic flight testing with white paint and blue and red stripes; 1001 to 1009 in the second batch with the dark camouflage, 1010 which is the first to have the AL-31FN, and 1011 to 1016 with light blue camouflage. Later, plus 1021 and 1022 as two seaters.

The 13th Trials Regiment in the FTTC started with 10 planes at first, but is now over 20+ aircraft. They get samples of each batch version, and the latest planes they have are the two seaters, which they didn't have before when the regiment started.

For that reason, all the J-10S were later added to the 44th Division when the J-10S became available. One of the regiments in the 44th actually had as much as 26 single seaters.

In that sense, the J-10S was "backordered" when these regiments were first formed.

In my opinion, use of AL-31FN did not start until J-10 1010. Previous to that, J-10s were using the WS-10, not to be confused with the later WS-10A.

In that sense, planes with serials up to 1009 may still be be reserved or is now being used, with WS-10A testing, since the changes would have been minimal. I don't believe these planes were ever converted to AL-31FN, if there were already long term plans to have the planes eventually suited up for WS-10A.

If there are AL-31FM1 or FNM-1 testing, they would be using planes 1010 to 1016.

The 1st Division is slated to be the ones that will receive the J-11B, likely the 1st Regiment. This regiment already has J-11 planes, and I believe the Su-27s, J-11s and J-11As will be moved to another division, likely the 19th Division which already has J-11s. The older Su-27s, that stems back from the Russian imports, may probably be moved to the 6th Division.

J-11B would have eliminated any sensor/EW advantage the J-10 has over the older Su-27 design, forcing the fight to become on the basis of pilot skill, tactics and aerodynamics. Suffice to say, once in WVR range, its still arguable which of these two planes are more maneuverable.

 

[Deino]

just posted by =GT at the CDF !!!

So - IMO - it looks as our old friend 01 became 001 and finally 1001 !!!

Cheers, Deino

 

[Scratch]

This suggests to me that the TVC engines are for the "twin-engined J-10" aka "Super 10" aka "Chengdu J-13" aka "J-XX".

Now once again, are these said AL-31FN TCV engines, because I still thought the only TVCs are -31FP in the MKI and FU in the Su-37/ -47 aircraft, while the FN is a moded FM ?

I would just guess on building up spares or closing a production gap.

 

[dollarman]

Maybe we're on the wrong track here. The article says "The engines will be installed on Chinese J-10 Super-10 fighters."

This suggests to me that the TVC engines are for the "twin-engined J-10" aka "Super 10" aka "Chengdu J-13" aka "J-XX".

It makes a lot more sense to put the most advanced engine China can get its hands on on the most advanced aircraft. This suggests to me that this Chengdu stealth fighter project is moving along at a brisk pace, that they are already planning for future serial production.

I'm a little bit uncomfortable accepting this theory...I mean it could be possible, but its a rather abrupt change. One thing is that the AL-31FM1 was optomized for one engined fighters (3D TVC is unneccesary in twin-engine Jets)as one of it's original development goals. You could certainly put it on a twin engine fighter with no problem though. I would have liked to see a prototype, official model, or any kind of mock-up of the Super-10 before believing it's going to be produced soon. However, the plane could be classified and we might not get get any intimation of it's existence until some leaks come through. It is my personal opinion that these new engines are for single engine J-10s.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Now once again, are these said AL-31FN TCV engines, because I still thought the only TVCs are -31FP in the MKI and FU in the Su-37/ -47 aircraft, while the FN is a moded FM ?

I would just guess on building up spares or closing a production gap.

Here's a AL-31FN TVC.

 

[crobato]

just posted by =GT at the CDF !!!

So - IMO - it looks as our old friend 01 became 001 and finally 1001 !!!

Cheers, Deino

Its not really clear if this is 01 at all. This plane appears to have a working radar. The working radar as well as avionics fit, was probably what distinguished the second batch of prototypes from the first three planes. 01 only has a black painted metal radome even in its most recent picture.

 

[Roger604]

I'm a little bit uncomfortable accepting this theory...I mean it could be possible, but its a rather abrupt change. One thing is that the AL-31FM1 was optomized for one engined fighters (3D TVC is unneccesary in twin-engine Jets)as one of it's original development goals. You could certainly put it on a twin engine fighter with no problem though. I would have liked to see a prototype, official model, or any kind of mock-up of the Super-10 before believing it's going to be produced soon. However, the plane could be classified and we might not get get any intimation of it's existence until some leaks come through. It is my personal opinion that these new engines are for single engine J-10s.

I don't think the timing is off in this case but rather fits in quite well. You order the engines now and they're delivered in two or three years. By then you're starting to introduce the new "twin engined J-10" into service so you start serial production with the new engines. So if the article is correct in saying that these engines are for the twin engined "Super 10" it would indicate this new fighter entering service sometime in 2010.

 

[challenge]

any picture from this year Beijing aerospace exhibition?

 

[dlhh]

Its not really clear if this is 01 at all. This plane appears to have a working radar. The working radar as well as avionics fit, was probably what distinguished the second batch of prototypes from the first three planes. 01 only has a black painted metal radome even in its most recent picture.

Crobato, the J10 air intake seems to be supported by 6 small beams attached to the fuselage unlike the F16 and Lavi with cleaner lines. Any idea why they need thse small beams?

 

[crobato]

The F-16 and the Lavi uses a circular intake, resulting in a greater separation between the nose and the upper part of the intake and don't need these beams. These beams are also needed on planes with side mounted square intakes that are relatively close to the body. For example, both the J-8II and the JH-7 have them. I bet you the Phantom and the MiG-23 would have them too. The beams are there to counter the pressure that builds up between the intake and the fuselage, strengthening the intake against the pressure, while at the same time, diffusing the flow outward to relieve the pressure.