New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

tphuang

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supersnoop

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SteelBird said:
I would take your advise for future needs. However, how do you make ICE kick-in? Dry up the battery or is there any function that can force the ICE to run?
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Beaten to death, but I will add that my PHEV also has such a button/menu option to toggle EV-only/Hybrid mode

Will also add this:
ICE will almost always kick in at 100 km/h in Hybrid mode (this is like the sweet spot for ICE). On a freeway, there is less regen, so the EV mode would drain quickly otherwise.
When I had a PHEV, I didn't fill up on gas for 3 months at a time before in warm weather, maybe it's not ideal, but whatever. Daily commute is only 50 Km total round-trip and the EV range was ~55 Km.

tphuang said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1810634410879832072

looks like Envision AESC has started a new factory in Spain also.
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Envision's only major customer is Nissan-Renault. They will likely face the same headwinds as SKOn and Northvolt as Western automakers struggle to lower the cost of EVs. Envision is a Chinese company, but AESC was acquired from Nissan/NEC and formerly based in Japan. They also do not have any LFP tech.
 
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LuzinskiJ

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tamsen_ikard said:
Perfectly illustrates what I have been saying for a long time, all this focus on Chinese EV from the west is actually a distraction. The true killer Car that will takeover market share in foreign countries will be Chinese ICE cars. They will also get market share in EV's as well, but EV sales will be dependent on people's willingness to buy EV's as well.

First of all, I don't think EV adoption will happen in other countries that quickly. It will be slow and painful and will take a long time. The infrastracture and ecosystem is just not going to develop that quickly. Moreover, people's mindset and willingness to adopt EV's will be slow as well.

Moreover, There is this thinking that Chinese companies will be better at EV but not at ICE cars because EV is a new tech. But I don't think that is true. Why would China impose all the rules and restrictions to only allow foreign car companies to sell inside China as a joint venture for the last 40 years?

Its to learn all the tech about car making including making the best engines. Foreign car makers do make everything in China including engines so why won't Chinese Car makers learn that as well?

Chinese cars are exploding in popularity around the world now for 2 reasons. First of all, Its Chinese Car industry as a whole that has improved its quality on all aspects. Whether its engine, suspension, infotainment, Chinese cars are good in all of it.

Secondly, Chinese car industry faced stagnation and falling profits couple of years back. They had no growth prospects inside China. So, they focused on foreign markets. They finally spent money on setting up foreign bases, marketing and other aspects. This is what finally allowed Chinese cars to be noticed in foreign markets.

After few years of struggle the exports started to boom in the last 2-3 years. Its really booming in ICE cars as well but somehow the western media is only obsessed about Chinese EVs. I think ICE cars will be the true dark horse for China's export industry.
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Maybe not ICE cars, but PHEV, like that BYD Qin with a 1300 mile range. That range alone is a very compelling argument.
 
tankphobia

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LuzinskiJ said:
Maybe not ICE cars, but PHEV, like that BYD Qin with a 1300 mile range. That range alone is a very compelling argument.
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China is one of the few countries with mature charging infrastructure, PHEV becomes a no brainer in basically all of the Global South, main concern is probably the repair/maintenance network as they will need both EV and ICE equipped mechanics.
 
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supersnoop

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EV is not a distraction. For western markets, the novelty of EV gives the best opportunity. That is how Tesla captured so much market share.

For other countries, technology is actually not supremely important. It is your second point, sales and service. Look at Geely taking over Proton, one of the first things they did was reform the dealership network.

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Yes, ICE sales can provide a lot of economic growth, but it would basically built on marketing rather than technological excellence.
 
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tamsen_ikard

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supersnoop said:
EV is not a distraction. For western markets, the novelty of EV gives the best opportunity. That is how Tesla captured so much market share.

For other countries, technology is actually not supremely important. It is your second point, sales and service. Look at Geely taking over Proton, one of the first things they did was reform the dealership network.

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Yes, ICE sales can provide a lot of economic growth, but it would basically built on marketing rather than technological excellence.
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yes, EV is a novelty but that can also be a drawback instead of an advantage. People are used to operating gasoline cars. So, for them switching from a Japanese/Korean brand to a Chinese brand might be a no brainer decision without any burden of changing the old mindset and habits.

Moreover, I don't agree that only EV can be technologically advanced. There is nothing stopping ICE cars from having the most advanced LIDAR, self-driving tech and awesome connectivity with all the devices. The only difference between an EV and an ICE car is the way you store energy. With ICE car you store energy using oil and you need to have an engine to generate power. With EV you of course have a battery.

You already see this with ICE cars starting to have massive touch screens and automated systems similar to EVs. So, again the choice becomes not "I want an EV with advanced tech", the choice becomes if both ICE cars and EVs have similar level of infotainment/self driving tech then "which type of energy/powertrain is the best suitable for me".

Moreover, if China wants to up the value chain then they need to export more and more cars. This will generate growth in GDP, people skill set and also advanced tech in vehicles regardless of whether its EV or not.
 
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CMP

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Proton said:
If we are talking about a "prototype", a platform for evolving software, were you never know what inputs can end up being useful; then sure - you can add as many as possible for later use.
If we talk about a more mature system, well past the concept stage, then stripping away those without firm purpose going forward should make sense.

According to data from Tesla themselves, they still seem to be improving:
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Not sure how they compare to others.

Well, the camera shows us the train and train crossing, the image recognition doesn't seem to do a good job. Yes, software relying on LiDAR could solve this, but improved image recognition can also solve it.
At the end of the day there isn't one definitive solution, there's plenty of pathways.
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Tesla went without LIDAR because LIDAR was still very expensive back when they were designing their vehicles. The cost now is a small fraction of what it used to be, so there is no good reason to go without it. If I am paying top dollar for a vehicle, I expect to have vision, LIDAR, and preferably more (laser, infrared, etc.). The more the better. When you are putting your life on the line and paying top dollar, you expect the best. Tesla is definitely far from the best, and their design choices are one of the reasons for that. Not to mention the interiors and suspension of even their most expensive EVs feel CHEAP AND LOW QUALITY AF. You'd get a vastly more luxurious interior and vastly more advanced suspension in a new base model Toyota or Honda.
 
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PikeCowboy

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grulle said:
Western sanctions are preventing Russians and Chinese from making a living. Nothing war related. We can't even trade now?

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Chinese carmakers have already seized more than half of Russia's car market since Western competitors pulled out, taking their technology and know-how with them, after Moscow invaded Ukraine in February 2022.

China's car exports to Russia were up 36% year-on-year in money terms to $4.86 billion in January-May, according to Chinese customs statistics.
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From the article it-self.

Must be some mystery payment system.
 
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