New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

HeiTangSeng said:

Interesting in Cambodia the D9 EV is priced below DM-i by a big margin! Here's the China pricing from my Denza app:

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I bought the 1050 DM-i with only 8000 RMB discount and extra complimentary scheduled maintenances. I don't remember any extra incentives mentioned for EV since less than 5% of Shanghai D9 sales are EVs. Unless you count the free green plate for EVs in Shanghai as a discount.

It actually makes sense to buy the EV version of D9 in Cambodia if local BYD dealer will take care of the warranty.



YYP's pure EV range test results are lower than what we can get in the summer: Our drive from Shanghai office to Hangzhou hotel is about 175 kms according to Gaode Maps and usually takes 2 hours and 50 minutes. On a full charge we consistently hit 25% battery with 40 to 50 kms to go. It's mostly highway at 80-120km/h. So we can get at least 120 kms pure EV from 150 kms CLTC claimed. We have already done this trip 4 times, the EV range is consistent.

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There's a logic that make me hesitate to buy an EV in Cambodia; data from car reviewer on YouTube show that up to 90% of D9 users in China are DM-i. While China has one of the best EV infrastructure, Cambodia as of today has only roughly 40 public charge stations and most of them are only 60kW. So, when the best EV infrastructure country buys DM-i, how on earth the worst EV infrastructure country buys EV?

The prices differences between DM-i and EV all go to import duties. As I heard from dealers that our government wants to encourage EV usage, that's why import duties for EV are much lower. After owning a vehicle, beside energy, the only regular expense that we pay is the yearly road tax, which is not much anyway (USD50 for a 2.0 and lower, and USD150 for a 3.0). Road tax for EV was even exempted from the beginning. Insurance is optional.

I think the D9 EV suits me better due the 20,000+ difference. I use my car within city most of the time. I only take long journey once or twice per year. Inside the city, I can charge at home but need a good plan when going long distances. What I don't like the most is the 620km claim on the D9 may turn out to be only 450km in real-life.

The news: BYD plan to build an assembly factory in Cambodia and 200 fast charge stations around the country. News is news, we don't know when this will become true.

tphuang said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1810657610988748975

Peru says BYD is considering a plant in their country. many visits, where else is BYD considering?

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Should BYD concentrate on fewer giga-factories, capable of making 1 million cars per year each, or a larger number of smaller plants?

Xpeng is rumored to give up LiDAR in future model

tonyget said:

Xpeng is rumored to give up LiDAR in future model

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Xpeng ain't got money for Lidars, gotta spend the money on that helicopter/fly-car thingy. Priorities

Overbom said:

Xpeng ain't got money for Lidars, gotta spend the money on that helicopter/fly-car thingy. Priorities

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I imagine LiDARs becomes redundant as you start implementing more mature optical systems to support self driving capabilities.
Sure, you could implement LiDARs in self-driving, but that seems like typical overengineering, don't think it really helps solving the more difficult challenges related to unpredictable events and optical systems should still provide an order of magnitude better accuracy than human perception.

Proton said:

I imagine LiDARs becomes redundant as you start implementing more mature optical systems to support self driving capabilities.
Sure, you could implement LiDARs in self-driving, but that seems like typical overengineering, don't think it really helps solving the more difficult challenges related to unpredictable events and optical systems should still provide an order of magnitude better accuracy than human perception.

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Ah yes, the Tesla "LiDARs becomes redundant as you start implementing more mature optical systems to support self driving capabilities." theory

Engineering and system architecture fundamentals support the integration of as many input modalities as possible so that digital data fusion from all that data would resemble the real world as much as possible. That would allow self-driving systems to reach from 99.99 to 99.99...9 safety percent depending on how many different and independent to each other input modalities you have

tonyget said:

Xpeng is rumored to give up LiDAR in future model

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No, this is a very stupid tweet. Xpeng's Lidar-less approach is not the same as Tesla's vision only approach because XPeng also has USS, MMW radar.
Even beyond that, this is for XPeng's new low cost brand. XPeng always had a Lidar solution for more expensive models (City NOA package) and Lidar-less solution for less expensive models (Highway NOA Package). So it makes sense that the lower cost brand also uses Lidar-less solution.

Proton said:

I imagine LiDARs becomes redundant as you start implementing more mature optical systems to support self driving capabilities.
Sure, you could implement LiDARs in self-driving, but that seems like typical overengineering, don't think it really helps solving the more difficult challenges related to unpredictable events and optical systems should still provide an order of magnitude better accuracy than human perception.

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You need Lidars to reach L3, because it's absolutely needed for heavy rain scenarios or bad lighting conditions. In fact, even Lidar might not be sufficient for L4, because what we also need is infrared imaging radar for even more adverse weather conditions.

henrik said:

Should BYD concentrate on fewer giga-factories, capable of making 1 million cars per year each, or a larger number of smaller plants?

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no, because BYD is not Tesla. smaller factories in countries allow it greater market access. China does not have the luxury of forcing market access for its brands

Proton said:

I imagine LiDARs becomes redundant as you start implementing more mature optical systems to support self driving capabilities.
Sure, you could implement LiDARs in self-driving, but that seems like typical overengineering, don't think it really helps solving the more difficult challenges related to unpredictable events and optical systems should still provide an order of magnitude better accuracy than human perception.

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Lidar-less is how the below happens. Foggy, poor visibility and an object the camera don't recognise.

Overbom said:

Ah yes, the Tesla "LiDARs becomes redundant as you start implementing more mature optical systems to support self driving capabilities." theory

Engineering and system architecture fundamentals support the integration of as many input modalities as possible so that digital data fusion from all that data would resemble the real world as much as possible. That would allow self-driving systems to reach from 99.99 to 99.99...9 safety percent depending on how many different and independent to each other input modalities you have

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If we are talking about a "prototype", a platform for evolving software, were you never know what inputs can end up being useful; then sure - you can add as many as possible for later use.
If we talk about a more mature system, well past the concept stage, then stripping away those without firm purpose going forward should make sense.

According to data from Tesla themselves, they still seem to be improving:
Not sure how they compare to others.

tankphobia said:

Lidar-less is how the below happens. Foggy, poor visibility and an object the camera don't recognise.

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Well, the camera shows us the train and train crossing, the image recognition doesn't seem to do a good job. Yes, software relying on LiDAR could solve this, but improved image recognition can also solve it.
At the end of the day there isn't one definitive solution, there's plenty of pathways.