New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

tphuang

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Dolcevita said:
Or possibly Spain instead of Italy. Spaniards seems to have a more favorable view of China and the government is less antagonistic.
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i think Spain would be good choice. Was there last year and there were no shortage of Korean cars there. There is no major local automotive brand that they need to protect, but they do have a local industry that builds foreign models. There were also Huawei store next to hotel, so I don't think they'd be against buying Chinese cars and would welcome investment. In fact, BYD already has a bus factory there
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anyways. major launch events for BYD Dolphin mini today in both Brazil
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762853130180460903

and Mexico
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762911149211734236

Also, BYD Han and Tang 2024 version now launched. Prices down 20-60k RMB across the board. Very hefty discounts. Put them in a position where they can undercut competition again. Especially after Geely launched E8 and Zeekr in December at cut throat prices

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1762900912887017701
 
4Runner

4Runner

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horse said:
Yeah, exactly. Could not agree more.

As of today, I think China auto industry will decisively win over America auto industry. I could change my mind in the future, but as of today, this is definitely the case in my mind.

The simple reason is that out of 10 Americans, 9 of them would not know who has the biggest auto market in the world, which is China, and GM sells more cars in China than America. (Note this last part is changing because GM getting beat in the China market.)

Then, when someone like Ford Co. wants to setup a partnership for Chinese batteries, the US government gets involved trying to negate that deal.

Good luck!

They will need it!

:D
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Exactly. The American domestic culture is so poisonous for GM and Ford to change course and catch up.

Mary Barra of GM (CEO) knows. She took over the GM after 2008 financial crisis, during which China market saved GM from going bankrupt. Just look at the history of Volt. There are so many political, social and cultural obstacles that, I think, she gave up on EV catchup.

Jim Farley of Ford (CEO) knows. He pushed the CATL joint venture in the first place. He publicly admitted it takes time for Ford to close the gap. In business translation, that means that he knows there is little chance he can catch up organically.

The US auto market is still drinking its own kool-aid trunks and SUVs. The political environment is so poisonous that a significant part of the voting population have no idea whatsoever about this global EV phenomenon. The latest the canary in the coal mine is that Apple is folding its in-house EV development.

As a student of history and technology, it is very interesting to observe this drama up close in real time. On the other hand, it is also sad. The best strategy for US is actually to copy what Tesla did in China. But that would be totally antithesis to the US domestic politics.

As a side note, Tesla is also having problem introducing low-end mass-market models, while Tesla is losing its grasp in the China EV market as AITO, Li Auto and other EV makers are attacking its price segments on scale. Tesla China growth prospects are significantly being impacted right now.
 
A

AndrewS

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tphuang said:
i think Spain would be good choice. Was there last year and there were no shortage of Korean cars there. There is no major local automotive brand that they need to protect, but they do have a local industry that builds foreign models. There were also Huawei store next to hotel, so I don't think they'd be against buying Chinese cars and would welcome investment. In fact, BYD already has a bus factory there
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I would also add that Spain has significantly lower land and labour costs than Italy.
Along with a government which is friendlier to business.
 
tphuang

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S

supersnoop

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4Runner said:
Exactly. The American domestic culture is so poisonous for GM and Ford to change course and catch up.

Mary Barra of GM (CEO) knows. She took over the GM after 2008 financial crisis, during which China market saved GM from going bankrupt. Just look at the history of Volt. There are so many political, social and cultural obstacles that, I think, she gave up on EV catchup.

Jim Farley of Ford (CEO) knows. He pushed the CATL joint venture in the first place. He publicly admitted it takes time for Ford to close the gap. In business translation, that means that he knows there is little chance he can catch up organically.

The US auto market is still drinking its own kool-aid trunks and SUVs. The political environment is so poisonous that a significant part of the voting population have no idea whatsoever about this global EV phenomenon. The latest the canary in the coal mine is that Apple is folding its in-house EV development.

As a student of history and technology, it is very interesting to observe this drama up close in real time. On the other hand, it is also sad. The best strategy for US is actually to copy what Tesla did in China. But that would be totally antithesis to the US domestic politics.

As a side note, Tesla is also having problem introducing low-end mass-market models, while Tesla is losing its grasp in the China EV market as AITO, Li Auto and other EV makers are attacking its price segments on scale. Tesla China growth prospects are significantly being impacted right now.
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Volt was too early for it's time. Actually there is some indication that dealers are asking for Volt powertrain to be dusted off.

It's not that GM gave up on EV catchup, it's that their battery strategy has been an execution failure. In fact, they started selling the Cadillac Lyriq in China before the US. They are not able to scale the production of their "Ultium" platform. They have not been entirely clear what the issues are ("supplier/equipment issues"), but without this large scale, efficient production, their lineup has been abortive. Without getting the first gen out, they can't even start on the next gen (which should close the gap).

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Chinese car tastes are actually quite close to Americans. There is a distinct desire for larger cars compared to European models, for example the extended wheelbase Passat was designed for America and China, while Europe got the smaller model. China has a big appetite for 3-row vehicles. Basically the EV issue is mainly politics.

US government is creating many roadblocks to smooth business operations. These battery manufacturing rules were not even clear until a couple months ago which meant that many US carmakers were just sitting and watching while BYD is pushing out a million cars.
 
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