New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

4Runner

4Runner

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[My Comments]
The day of reckoning is coming. There are many reasons for its being between China EVs and US SUVs. Some are structural. Others may be cultural. This China-vs-US auto drama will eventually be less dramatic yet more fundamental than the last Japan-vs-US auto drama circa 1980s and 1990s. The latter one had a much narrower context in that: (1) they were all ICE cars in the same eco-system; (2) Japan was essentially a vassal. The former has a much broader context in that: (1) it is green vs conventional; (2) it is battery-powered AI-driven vs gas-powered conventional technologies.

There are more outcries than ideas in the MSM so far. The most fundamental question is how US faces this challenge and transforms its auto industry. This is as much of a paradigm shift as of a market transition. In the last Japan-vs-US auto struggle, it took minivans and SUVs as well as government policies to bring the US auto industry back from going under. In the current China-vs-US auto struggle, it is full-spectrum technological advancement as well as industrial eco-system.

This coming global auto war will eventually make Ukraine war and Gaza war look like kindergarten games. It is as global and fundamental as the Internet revolution since 1990s. The approaches US is taking in the next 5-10 years will be emblematic of how US is going to compete economically in the coming decades. The stakes are so high ......
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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4Runner said:
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[My Comments]
The day of reckoning is coming. There are many reasons for its being between China EVs and US SUVs. Some are structural. Others may be cultural. This China-vs-US auto drama will eventually be less dramatic yet more fundamental than the last Japan-vs-US auto drama circa 1980s and 1990s. The latter one had a much narrower context in that: (1) they were all ICE cars in the same eco-system; (2) Japan was essentially a vassal. The former has a much broader context in that: (1) it is green vs conventional; (2) it is battery-powered AI-driven vs gas-powered conventional technologies.

There are more outcries than ideas in the MSM so far. The most fundamental question is how US faces this challenge and transforms its auto industry. This is as much of a paradigm shift as of a market transition. In the last Japan-vs-US auto struggle, it took minivans and SUVs as well as government policies to bring the US auto industry back from going under. In the current China-vs-US auto struggle, it is full-spectrum technological advancement as well as industrial eco-system.

This coming global auto war will eventually make Ukraine war and Gaza war look like kindergarten games. It is as global and fundamental as the Internet revolution since 1990s. The approaches US is taking in the next 5-10 years will be emblematic of how US is going to compete economically in the coming decades. The stakes are so high ......
Click to expand...

Just ban it like they banned Huawei for national security reasons. Is that so hard?
 
Wrought

Wrought

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Registered Member
siegecrossbow said:
Just ban it like they banned Huawei for national security reasons. Is that so hard?
Click to expand...

The problems with the "just ban it" approach are specifically addressed in the article.

But here’s where it gets messy. The case for protecting the American auto market from Chinese E.V.s is obvious and politically essential but also highly troublesome. In the short term, American automakers — even the homegrown electric-only carmakers like Tesla and Rivian — must be shielded from a wave of cheap cars. But in the long term, Mr. Biden must be careful not to cordon off the American car market from the rest of the world, turning the United States into an automotive backwater of bloated, expensive, gas-guzzling vehicles. The Chinese carmakers are the first real competition that the global car industry has faced in decades, and American companies must be exposed to some of that threat, for their own good.
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It's not unique to cars or the US or US cars; this same pattern is repeated everywhere across many industries. Without competent industrial policy to develop competitive domestic alternatives, a ban will only put you further and further behind. It's export discipline all over again.
 
A

AndrewS

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Registered Member
vincent said:
Tell that to all those Chinese companies that were forced to sell their investments in Canada and the US at fire sale prices. Remember the treatments Xiaomi, BBK and other Chinese companies received in India?
Geopolitical risks are real.
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Remember that the German auto companies and Stellantis etc are coupling even tighter with Chinese companies.

If we're talking about EU governments forcing Chinese companies to sell at fire sale prices, then we can expect the same to happen with the Chinese government and European companies.

And even if BYD and CATL are forced to sell their European factories, you can bet that those factories will still be reliant on some level of Chinese imports to function.

And you have to consider that countries like Hungary are actually very friendly towards China
 
mossen

mossen

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supercat said:
Li Mega can be charged in 10 minutes.
Click to expand...

Zeekr's refreshed 001 model can charge 10% to 80% in
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, thanks to the 5C battery.

I think we are close to witnessing the end to the charging problem, not just in terms of availability but also speed. It happened way faster than people thought and it's all thanks to China.
 
mossen

mossen

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4Runner said:
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I read the article and the author is delusional. He basically thinks US OEMs are going to compete if they are given a "temporary" protection. But how can you learn from the Chinese if their cars are not even available to customers!?

He also says that the GOP must learn to become environmentalists and support the NEV transition. Good luck with that, LOL. What is more likely to happen is that Chinese EVs will continue to face steep barriers of entry into the US for the foreseeable future. US OEMs will be given a massive protective "moat" which will erode their competiveness. American consumers will be given access to inferior products at inflated prices - all subsidised by Uncle Sam.

The clear lesson of history is that technology always beats politics in the long run. Chinese companies will simply do an end run around US companies. That's why I am against any attempts to stop Chinese car companies from selling in Europe because our legacy carmakers need a kick in their butts. Competition is good.
 
TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Actually disagree. US is so far behind they will never beat Chinese car except maybe Tesla can keep up. Best they can do is make China share technology, and in exchange offer a limited market access. The limited Chinese car will let US company keep a niche and not die. Otherwise it will be a disaster for last of American industry.
 
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