Well, I guess if they can't keep up with private players they will have to be broken down/sold off eventually. They won't be able to slumber forever. Someone has to pay for that.
New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China
- Thread starter supercat
- Start date
Yup they should be sold and brand names leased to highest bidder, Money made from the sale could be used to set up a fund that would passively invest in Chinese automakers index, Government would have a stake in all private players with minimum oversight
Well here is the thing.
New players have:
Cool technology/designs
What they don't have:
Money
A lot of factories
Guess what those dinosaurs have? The SOEs, they are slow and super conservative, but they are not stupid. They are super risk adverse because they are assets of the government, they aren't going to burn money like start ups.
The private players doing well, Geely, BYD, GWM, they all have been making (or are still making) ICE cars for a long time. They don't need to put down the same kind of outlay for plants as NIO or others do. NIO desperately swapped equity to the Anhui provincial government for cash and factory land. The other SOE can easily make the same type of offer.
thanks for posting this. This is clearly the 8-in-1 motor for BYD Seal, so represents pretty cutting edge for BYD mass brandBYD has adopted a self-sufficiency strategy by boosting in-house design and system assembly
Twice a month, Yole SystemPlus analysts share the noteworthy points from their automotive Teardown Tracks. Today, Benjamin Pussat, Technology & Cost Analysts at Yole SystemPlus, part of Yole Group, takes us to the heart of BYD’s all-in-one high-voltage powertrain, the most integrated electrification system on the market.
From the stand-alone units of 10 years ago to today’s most commonly used 3-in-1 Integrated Power Unit and e-axle, BEV high-voltage integration continues its unbridled progress. On this point, Chinese OEMs are at the helm. Chang’an and Leapmotor already offer 7-in-1 systems. BYD goes a step further by additionally embedding the BMS (battery management system) in the box(1). Thanks to strong incentive policies followed by penalizing regulations (dual-credit mandate), the share of EVs reached 27.6% in China in 2022 whereas it was 0% a decade ago.
Highlights from Yole SystemPlus Automotive Teardown Tracks
The BYD 8-in-1 powertrain includes the BMS, VCU, inverter, PDU, OBC-DC/DC merged into one unit, and the gearbox/e-motor in another. The teardown was performed on all devices apart from the gearbox and e-motor.
Yole SystemPlus observed that the overall system space is optimized, with components placed very close to each other, and sub-boards soldered perpendicular to the OBC/DC-DC power board. This involves the implantation of an efficient thermal management solution characterized by the use of SiC technology for both inverter and OBC-DC/DC MOSFETS, thermal pads placed over critical areas, an insulating sheet and a water-cooling system.
Eleven boards were discovered. Four are used in the inverter area, the other ones in the OBC/DC-DC. Main component identification reveals that BYD still relies on foreign providers for most of the electronic components (led by Texas Instruments). However, local suppliers such as Runic, Len Technology, Novosense and Faratronic provide basic functions components.
Opening the system makes it clear that the Chinese OEM has adopted a self-sufficiency strategy, as most of the key power components have been identified as being manufactured or assembled by BYD (inverter SiC power module, output current sensor module, power relays, DC link capacitor…). This certainly helps the company to lead the total integration race.
Also I had been wondering who the domestic automakers source from when it comes to domestic chipmakers. I knew about Novosense, but good to get some of these other names and watch them out
Just to add a couple more things
Rivian also losing 30K per vehicle
As a note, NIO also loses about that as well
Toyota's software unit "Woven Planet" has been deemed a failure and went through layoffs
There was a WSJ article about their attempts to create a "Silicon Valley-like atmosphere in Tokyo". If you thought the German software industry was weak, what would you say about Japan? lol
I guess he thought he could attract a lot of weebs.
Charging infrastructure? I think it would play a big part.
Q3 results summary for BYD
huge quarter
22 Yangwang stores opening up
70 Fangchengbao stores opening up
video of auto parking with N7. looks pretty good. Don't underestimate BYD's software
huge quarter
22 Yangwang stores opening up
70 Fangchengbao stores opening up
video of auto parking with N7. looks pretty good. Don't underestimate BYD's software
byd mega factory in Shenzhen Shenshan opening up. Huge export potential from here, building cars from Yangwang, FCB and Denza
also looking to get all the major commercial shippers in here
also looking to get all the major commercial shippers in here
new ID will use LFP battery. Not sure if CATL or byd
BYD Dolphin coming out with new OTA with improvements across the board
Neta is entering middle east with UAE market
BYD Dolphin coming out with new OTA with improvements across the board
Neta is entering middle east with UAE market
supercat
Major
BYD's gross margin is higher than Tesla's now.
Renault's high-end EVs in South Korea will be based on Geely's platform.
LG Energy Solutions will not mass-produce LFP batteries until 2026. Samsung SDI and SK are on the process of "considering" LFP batteries.
CATL's new 30 GWh factory will produce 1 cell each second and 1 pack in about 2.5 minutes. 30 GWh is enough for about 450,000 passenger EVs.
Chinese EVs are getting more competitive.
Renault's high-end EVs in South Korea will be based on Geely's platform.
LG Energy Solutions will not mass-produce LFP batteries until 2026. Samsung SDI and SK are on the process of "considering" LFP batteries.
CATL's new 30 GWh factory will produce 1 cell each second and 1 pack in about 2.5 minutes. 30 GWh is enough for about 450,000 passenger EVs.
Chinese EVs are getting more competitive.
Basically in the stone age still.
And these companies are the ones supplying US EVs. The entire US supply chain is horribly, horribly behind. "Losing" money on every car sold isn't that big of a deal. Capital investment will eventually recoup itself, given enough scale. The only "problem" with "losing" money like this, is maintianing enough cash flow while competing on price.
A much bigger issue for US automakers is how behind they are in the supply chain on batteries. motors, and human capital. There's also a lot of overhead and fat that needs to be trimmed as automakers transition from ICE to EVs.